Make t3 navy more exciting!?!

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thewheelie said in Make t3 navy more exciting!?!:

Hoverbombing bombers is more unrealistic than groundfiring subs

  • take A10 Thunderbolt flying at 160m/s
  • drop first bomb
  • Fire cannon for a full 66 seconds
  • force of the cannon stalls out the plane and blows a hole deep enough to bury this thread in a nearby mountain
  • drop second bomb at stall speed, almost straight down
  • stop firing the cannon and return to level flight so that your plane doesn't become the third bomb
  • ???
  • hoverbombing achieved
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@biass Shame that you stopped firing, USAF would have offered you a job for the 3 bomb version

Anyway...

  • So, we render subs immune to ground fire yes?
  • If it turns out problematic, fix in next patch
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Where do you even get the idea from that current T3 navy stage sub meta is significantly shaped by groundfire?
Clearly the main "problem"/factor of sub balance are torpedo bombers (which can suicide mass efficiently into subs). Removing groundfire on subs will not impact this at all, what it will do though is making air dominace even more impactful on 20x20 navy maps.
Considering subs are even faster than even frigs losing air would mean your could get your anti subs ships/subs immediatly torped after an airloss and your navy run down.
Also did you consider any gamemodes that are not setons and decent execution from both sides (shif g in subs and keep them in a blob or just a clicking battleships to provide easy groundfire targets is not good execution)?

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I thought this thread was about battleship health 🤔

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@auricocorico groundfiring subs is the biggest navy has apparently. I get that subs don't really have a role atm. At least on setons. But battleships groundfiring is not the issue. I totally agree with turin here.

It annoys me though that the only efficient counter to harms is groundfiring it.
Torpedobombers can not kill it mass efficiently if you have well placed sams behind it that are out of range of battleships which don't push into harms range. Pretty sure every sub/destro gets absoluetly melted by harms as well.

Groundfiring harms is just another navy apm drain that gives huge benefits and isn't fun at all. And depending on the faction it can take ages to kill them.

I would prefer if they weren't groundfireable but had less hp so that suiciding torps into them would result in a 1:1 kill loss ratio.

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@biass said in Make t3 navy more exciting!?!:

Fire cannon for a full 66 seconds

It only has ammunition for about 20s of fire though 4Head

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equip extended mag

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Back on topic, have you taken a look at other games with navy? In BAR for example navy seems a lot more interesting and subs can actually be useful, but they also don't piss their pants when adjusting balance and actually try out stuff.

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@turinturambar said in Make t3 navy more exciting!?!:

Where do you even get the idea from that current T3 navy stage sub meta is significantly shaped by groundfire?

@harzer99

Well I never said it was the biggest issue, just a problem. I'm sick of this misinterpretation that simply talking about an obvious problem implies it is the biggest problem.
It doesn't have to "significantly shape the meta" to be a broken game mechanic. We don't ban building factories underneath a transport dropping units because it often has a huge game deciding effect so often that it shapes the meta, it's because the game mechanic is broken.
Have you considered that maybe people are talking about it quite a lot because it is so many people find it problematic, regardless of how much of an overall impact it has on the game?

And: if people think groundfiring subs has such a tiny impact on the game anyway, then you should have no problem whatsoever with removing the mechanic from the game.

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RE hoverbombing:
Well the USA has had the Harrier since the 1980s(?), so it's not inconceivable for a super futuristic bomber to be extremely maneuverable and able to quickly stop, and actually hover.

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i was adressing valki with my post
(the guy who posted directly above me)

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@corvathranoob said in Make t3 navy more exciting!?!:

And: if people think groundfiring subs has such a tiny impact on the game anyway, then you should have no problem whatsoever with removing the mechanic from the game.

also did you miss the part where I explained why it would change current balance in towards the worse?

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Yeah, Valki said groundfiring subs is part of the meta. You incorrectly read that as "significantly shaping" the meta. Things can also be a small part of the meta. And the point here is that they are a small part, because subs suck, because groundfire exists.

I saw your argument, and I don't think it would make game balance worse. You're saying, we make a change that BUFFS subs, but they are still vulnerable to torps, so air and torps become more important because that will now be the way you have to counter them. Well, that's the point. Removing groundfire still only makes subs more viable, because you CURRENTLY can torp them just as easily. It doesn't sound like you think removing groundfire would make subs OP, just that this would only help make subs slightly more viable. Well, slightly more viable is better than zero more viable, when they are already significantly underpowered...and giving a small buff to an underpowered unit will improve balance rather than make it worse.

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@turinturambar it helps to @[username] to make clear who you reply to.

No matter how big or small the problem, everyone agrees sub ground-fire is silly.

If subs are rendered immune to ground-fire, then this could massively alter the meta, even if it is in a desirable way. Making more changes at the same time only complicates things. So in patch N you make subs immune to ground-fire, in patch N+1 you revisit naval to see how things are and what now needs fixing.

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how did you get to litterally everyone?

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By injecting the faf superiority complex into this discussion where 80% of the dudes for removing the groundfire are wanting it removed cuz muh realism and muh faf superior to other games.

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Just do the ASF armour solution. Give T3 Subs and Altantis something to heavily reduce damage frim battleship fire.

*And increase speed of T1 Subs maybe I don’t know

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Everybody agrees valki is wrong

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Isn't every aircraft in faf vtol? Anything vtol can hover bomb. While your hovering, your also completely helpless to aa.

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@thewheelie said in Make t3 navy more exciting!?!:

Hoverbombing bombers is more unrealistic than groundfiring subs and instead of 1 in every 200 games it happens 1 in every 2 games. Waiting for the HOVERBOMBING IS BROKEN AND UNREALISTIC thread, thanks

Out of fuel planes hovering slowly instead of crashing to the ground is more unrealistic than groundfiring subs, and it happens in every game where someone (cough Tagada) uses select all fighters every time there is a single bomber somewhere. Waiting for the OUT OF FUEL PLANES SHOULD INSTANTLY CRASH thread, thanks