Change Mantis to T1 tank icon

It makes no sense (both in terms of gameplay and lore) that you can zoom in and clearly see that its a Mantis (aka bigger threat than lab), and then just zoom out and somehow the information lost now?

The other factions would have to gimp their own tactical overview on purpose to remove information they already have, why.

Because Cybran is messing with your intelligence gathering simply put

Mantis is a t1 tank. That is all. (Although if the supcom 2 example is to be followed, it could have +25% damage (10 instead of 8 for 33.33 dps) in exchange for -25% hp (200 instead of 270).

If it's a gameplay mechanic it should have counterplay, which in this case either doesn't exist or is switching off "Always Render Strategic Icons"... a setting in the options menu that you don't even have to be in game to access. That's not gameplay. If it was an intended mechanic, Mantis would appear with tank icons for the user - not that lore really matters but from that perspective why would you jam your own sensors?

To a lesser extent it creates the same potential problems for the Cybran using Hunters+Mantis as it does for the opponent. You won't know what your land mix is when just looking at it, and have to remember what you sent where and go out of your way to actually select units in various places to confirm what's what, whereas other factions can just zoom out and know how many LABs and tanks they have and where they are. This is potentially meaningful, especially early, as you might well push in with a LAB in a fight that a Mantis could win but a Hunter will lose, or hang back when you could have raided with Mantis and taken a lead. This goes against the point of strategic icons, which is basically the selling point of the game.

TLDR this isn't really a fun or interesting skillset to punish or reward for either side, and it's pretty hard to believe it's a deliberate design choice beyond "Mantis have legs".

PR is up and merged.
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/3265

I'm quite sad noboby took draguns comment seriously, I think it makes perfect sense. Mantis has been like that since SupCom ... i'm sad this feature is removed to satisfy 3-4 people ....
#mantisarebots !!!!

His argument falls apart because it also affects the cybran player himself.

Who cares whether its an intended feature or whether it was in the OG supcom or not. All that matters is if its good or bad to have it in the game.

Does anyone ever do this or is this a non issue

Do what?

Mix in hunters with mantis to make a army appear larger and more dangerous than it really is

Compromise : instead of a tank icon, you put the bricks/percy icon : it's still a bot, but it has a X instead of a cross to differenciate it from the hunter. Of course it would have 1 white bar to indicate it's a t1 bot and not a brick.

@Auricocorico Pretty brutal to have T1 <X> units being spammed out

@Auricocorico but if we are doing that why not just change it to tank icon lol.

That's the definition of a compromise ... Halfway solution between "no change, mantis are bots and cybran messes up with your intel", and "mantis are used as a tank, make it a tank icon"

So I can put a fuller post with a more detailed explanation later but with exception of T3. Which is weird for icon assignment. But in general:
Units with Bot Assignment Strategic Icon. Had/Have higher DPS and with 1 Non T3 Exception Higher Movement than “Directfire” Equivalents.
All Labs had Higher DPS than tanks.
All T2 DirectBots had higher DPS than Tanks.
BotAntiAir had Higher DPS than TankAntiAir.
All Bots in general have had Higher Movement Speed Than TankDirectFire. Bots had lower HP than Tank Equivalent except for Aurora. Now Mantis, is also Bot Icon for Intel reasons as stated.

Now interesting Ilshavoh is only T2 Bot Icon that an exception to this rule (and is noted in BP as having the wrong icon).

That said I would prefer Aurico solution, because it keeps the intel situation sense the similar icon results in a momentary confusion for players. But it keeps it distinctive removes the bad feels.

Also I would argue for introduction for whole host of new strategic icons to be frank. Like if I could I’d introduce the following new icons (bias exists here I’ll admit:

Air Engineer Icon (For Drones)
QGateway Factory Icon
Amphibious/Hover Icon for DirectFire/Scout/Missile/AntiAir/Arty
Bot/Land T2 Sniper Icon

I'll just say I 100% disagree with Dragun's opinion and think it makes a lot more sense for mantis to have a tank icon, since that is what they really are.
I think it's very rarely a big deal that you will get confused, since hunters are not spammed and you can just assume a group of them are mantis, and if it's just one or two raiding you'll probably be sending tanks to counter rather than labs anyway so it's almost never very relevant. But there are some occasions where it would it ought to be clear without having to zoom in. I disagree this is or should be part of cybran's subterfuge style, because as BlackyYps said it's less clear to cybran players themselves, AND their teammates in a teamgame.

I'm still wanting to know if anybody on purpose puts hunters with mantis so the army looks bigger or any other reason related to the bot icon

For reference, the different in movespeed between the hunter and the mantis is the same as the difference in movespeed between the mantis and the striker. It should be easy to tell at a glance what unit it is just by the movespeed.

@Auricocorico said in Change Mantis to T1 tank icon:

I'm quite sad noboby took draguns comment seriously, I think it makes perfect sense. Mantis has been like that since SupCom ... i'm sad this feature is removed to satisfy 3-4 people ....
#mantisarebots !!!!

I made a three paragraph reply two posts above yours dude. I took it seriously out of respect for Dragun, as much as anything, cos he's a good guy. I just don't think his perspective makes sense in this case.

I would also be on board with a T1 Percy/Brick icon, I just don't see the point of having two units in the same faction having the same icon when it can absolutely confuse newer/rustier/worse players either using or fighting the Hunter/Mantis, like I said in my last post. It doesn't really matter which gets used, T1 tank is also fine and consistent with Seraphim T1 MAA having a diamond icon.

And yes @veteranashe I made this thread because someone went LAB/Mantis mix against me and it caused minor confusion (if perhaps also being a little inefficient - I wonder if he pushed once or twice when he shouldn't have because he overestimated his forces). It's not confusing when people go Mech Marine/Striker or Flare/Aurora, which also happens. Regardless, you would want this to be addressed either way before it became a solid choice in the meta, not leave it because it doesn't happen often when it's literally one line of code.