Why would you have left FAF?

Here's a current frustration of mine, and a suggestion for a solution...

I'm not very good at this game, partly because I'm not particularly good at video games in general, and because I developed bad habits specifically with SupCom, as I wasn't aware of FAF, only played Vanilla, and got addicted to being able to pause the game and treat it like a turn-based game. I have at various times forced myself to play against human opponents but quickly got consistently beaten by low ranked players, resulting in a sub-zero rating and enough frustration to cause me to put the game down many times.

Recently I've started playing again, and while I don't think I'll ever be able to play according to the widely-agreed upon META, I have changed a few things that I do so that I can play more strategically... so that I can focus more on growth of my economy, my production, and my tech level, and focus less on where my tanks are. I've been playing against DilliDalli and M27 and have developed a way of playing that has resulted in more success than I've ever had against those AIs, and that I've developed muscle memory for, to the point where I no longer need to pause the game in the first couple of minutes to keep up with the requirements of setting things up properly. I feel as though I have a better understanding of the true nature of the game and what is required in order to improve and be more successful, and now I would like to start playing human opponents again.

Problem is, that I've been sitting here waiting for the Matchmaker to give me a game for the last 3 hours. This isn't a fault of the Matchmaker - this is the fault of my -45 1v1 rating. People who have been as bad as me usually don't stick around for continued punishment and frustration, and rightly so, players who are better than me don't want to waste their time playing someone with a -45 rating.

This isn't a complaint about the Matchmaker - I am happy to keep waiting for a game - but I do have a suggestion that might help people in my situation - allow AI to be an opponent for very low rated players so they have a chance to demonstrate that they have improved. I won't be able to reliably get matched unless my rating increases, and I can't increase my rating without getting matched. There should be some sort of "release valve" at the bottom of the 1v1 ladder to help returning players who feel they have improved to resurrect their ratings, and maybe one of the better AI mods could serve as this release valve.

@zappazapper
May I ask what timezone you're in aka. when you are searching?

For AIs in MatchMaker:
There has been a discussion on the FAF discord which I recommend checking out. It was quite a while back (prob a few months) so I can't remember any details about it sadly.

Besides that if you can beat M27 consistantly in 1v1s, you should be able to beat ~700 rated players as well, so I don't think your "skill" is a problem. I suggest to look for some other players to play with, if you search together the average rank is the only metric the system cares for so you can probably get more matches. Ofc it's not the ideal solution (as a bigger playerbase would fix quite everything), but it's the one I can give you

@sladow-noob I'm in Toronto. I just tried turning on the Matchmaker this morning. I understand that there are times of the day that are more ideal than others to find games, and now might not be one of those times. But I'm sitting here looking at the "IN QUEUE" number go up to 5 or 6 at times, so obviously someone is playing. Again, I'm not suggesting that the Matchmaker is unfairly keeping me from playing. What I'm suggesting is that one of the things that causes ME to stay away from the game at times is the frustration due to lack of success, so anyone who is an appropriate opponent for my rating, as judged by the Matchmaker, is possibly also frustrated enough to not bother playing. I understand that a similar problem of high-rated players also finding it hard to be matched up also exists - in that case, I'm sure those players would agree that an AI that is a worthy opponent for a +2000 rated player doesn't currently exist, so the discussion on whether AI should be allowed in rated games in that context is moot. But as you suggest, M27 certainly should be a worthy opponent for anyone with a sub-zero rating, and could function as a way to get ratings up enough to generate some attention from the Matchmaker. Just my two cents, in the context of a discussion about "player retention".

Just joined recently. A few thoughts.

1. When you're rating 0, I've found it takes a very long time to find matches on matchmaking
2. For custom games, probably 50% of the games have a lag issue that causes the game to pause for 2m before you can kick someone. I feel like it should be pretty easy to determine that in the lobby with some type of ping test. Also on team games then the game is pretty much ruined. Super annoying.
3. Maybe 10% of the games I play on large maps like dual gap (some of the funnest maps) straight up crash after 45m of play. Extremely annoying. (https://forum.faforever.com/topic/7335/game-keeps-crashing-on-dual-gap)
4. I feel like a good number of people play with friends from word of mouth, but you can't usually be on the same team as them due to balance issues if they're new. Makes it way less fun.
5. You spend a lot of time waiting in lobbies. A lot. Feels unusual for typical games.

Also I think it would be nice to have a simple optional walkthrough of changes with faf compared to the original game for new players

Also after meeting up with some people I learned about all the micro stuff you have to do with your commander in order to remain competitive. Such as move your commander to a spot before selecting to build something so that it's in range. Moving units to dodge artillery. Same for subs. Personally I don't like any aspect of micro stuff, I feel like it should be automated. Why can't the com get just close enough to build something, why is the default to walk right up to it? idk but to me the micro aspects of the game don't add to the fun.

@jfuruness Most RTS games have some form of micro, some more than others. I'd say FAF falls on the less than others side of the spectrum. It's just part of the genre and there's 0% chance the stuff you mentioned will be automated. That said, the build range thing is something that other RTSs manage to do much better. It seems to be one of the game engine's quirks.

haven't played that many RTS games, makes sense

@zappazapper said in Why would you have left FAF?:

@sladow-noob But I'm sitting here looking at the "IN QUEUE" number go up to 5 or 6 at times, so obviously someone is playing.

That's not a lot sadly. It's not uncommon that the numbers during primetime are in between 20 and 35.

There was a feature on the old client with "A player in your rating range is searching for a game" which was brought up recently again, but I cannot tell you the current state or its priority. That might fix the problem.
Regarding the AIs: Personally I'd not mind it, but it has some counter arguments which is the reason it's not a simple decision to make and the playerbase is a problem again. From what I remember, player A doesn't want AI, player B wants AI. Solution: Toggle the option "Get AI" on/off with each player. Problem: Playerbase, so if a single player doesn't want an AI, everyone else can't get it if they get matched.

Not saying that you're wrong or that your idea makes no sense, don't get me wrong please as I highly appreciate any feedback, just giving some input here for you (and others) to read as "We're aware of the problem and input is appreciated"

@jfuruness said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Also I think it would be nice to have a simple optional walkthrough of changes with faf compared to the original game for new players

May I ask what exactly you mean? It exists for the most important balance changes, or are you thinking of "What to find where in the client" or "how to setup lobbies" etc.?

@jfuruness said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Also after meeting up with some people I learned about all the micro stuff you have to do with your commander in order to remain competitive. Such as move your commander to a spot before selecting to build something so that it's in range. Moving units to dodge artillery. Same for subs. Personally I don't like any aspect of micro stuff, I feel like it should be automated. Why can't the com get just close enough to build something, why is the default to walk right up to it? idk but to me the micro aspects of the game don't add to the fun.

Some problems lie in the source as FAF does not have the permission for it (at least afaik), so there are functions which cannot be changed without having to recode the entire game.
When talking about micro and macro, every RTS game obviously has both. FAF is by far one of the RTS games which are on the macro side. While it's true that decent micro is needed for the upper ratings, it's not a strict requirenment in lower ranked lobbies. Usually the call "use your ressources efficient (macro) and do not just suicide 30 tanks into some t1 PDs (small micro)" is enough to stay competitive.

ah gotcha makes sense regarding the micro. As far as balance changes, ya I'm not sure where that list is?

The changes between steam and FAF are listed here while the balanche patches from FAF itself are listed here

TY!

My apologies. I just figured out the reason I wasn't getting games was that I wasn't also clicking the brown "PLAY FAF" button (or whatever it says) in addition to the blue 1v1 button. There's a case to be made that I'm just stupid and didn't understand how it works, but also, I'm not really that stupid and maybe it needs to be made a little clearer how it works. Thank you all.

You are not the first person who has done that.

@zappazapper

Yeah others have had the same issue. Seems like the UI isn't very clear for some. Which I think is understanable in this case. Still, can you explain what your thought process was when qeueing? Since I believe all the different qeues should already be activated from the get go, so you only need to click the play button in order for it to work.

@stormlantern my thought process was that I only want to play 1v1 because I don't want to subject my horrible play to a potential teammate

But ya, I figured clicking the 1v1 box was enough. The brown box says "PLAY FORGED ALLIANCE FOREVER", which I guess is kind of vague. It's a big enough box that it could theoretically say "Choose game type below and click here to search for game..." or something similar.

Have it say "queue up" or something.