Why would you have left FAF?

@sylph_ said in Why would you have left FAF?:

• with the UI (keybinding with commands like : "copy orders" or "select nearest onscreen idle MEX' -> 'upgrade structure" - are really good for building bases or scaling economy without spending much attention at crucial moments, not to mention the (far) more well-documented 'spread move' and 'set target priority' commands),
• outside of a match (factory queue templates - so that pressing tab-leftclick makes a new factory spam a big, versatile combat army),
• that don't require a large mental stack during a match (easy-to-remember build orders like: factory, 2power, 2MEX, 2power, 2MEX, 2power, factory - (a palindrome!) done before anything happens), and
• habits that can make complicated-sounding issues really simple (like how I have 'select idle engineer' bound to tilde, so I can just spam "tilde -> alt+rightclick" around the map to sort out reclaim in seconds.)

I think what I'm saying is that there should be at least some tutorials that focus on this kind of stuff in addition to build orders and economics and tactics. I find APM to be my most scarce resource, and things like this would help me to just play faster. And yes, this info is out there for anybody to use, but it would really help if those who have more experience with this kind of stuff can curate a training regime to help guide lower-rated on how to use the key commands and templates properly and efficiently. I already know that I don't use either as much as I should, but I wish I knew how others were using them so that I don't waste my time using them incorrectly.

@arma473 I'm actually a big fan of your guide. It has helped a lot. My main problem is that I just don't have enough time to commit things to muscle memory, and I when I do play, I don't do the kind of things that are going to help me get better because I get overwhelmed and frustrated. There is no lack of quality advice from a plethora of sources, I just think it could be curated better in tutorial form within the game. I think the tutorials are the one area where the FAF experience comes up short. I say that with the humble acknowledgement that it can't be easy to make a tutorial in the first place, and that in a community driven volunteer project such as FAF, the people giving their time to build the tutorials are ultimately going to prioritize the topics they want, and not the ones I want. I just think, if we're talking about player retention, to me the tutorials seem like the biggest lost opportunity.

@sladow-noob I'll reiterate that the biggest problem in my attempts to improve is ME. I'm not here to complain about trainers, but this is a discussion on player retention, and my own experience is that while the resources to improve are out there (various guides people have written, and trainers that graciously donate their time), it's been my experience that it's hard to know what to prioritize, so not only is playing frustrating to me because I need to improve, but my attempts to improve are frustrating because there's so much to improve and I don't know where to start. And so it becomes less of a discussion about who's advice is more valid (I'm certain it's mostly all valid), and more of a discussion of regardless of what's being taught, what's the best way of teaching it? The person with the best advice might not have the best way of disseminating that advice. And so my position in this discussion about player retention is that somewhere in this somewhat diverse community there might be someone who has some real-world experience in the field of training and education and can maybe help to organize all the resources available into some sort of clear path for players of various levels to improve. This person or this group of people don't need to be high-ranked players because they're not the ones creating the advice, they're just organizing the concepts created by others so that it's more educational to more players, just like high-school chemistry teachers don't make scientific discoveries themselves, they just organize the information created by others into an effective tool for learning chemistry. It's a matter of approach to training, not the advice itself.

@nine2 Seen it time and time again a noob player will make a lobby only for some idiot with new account own them and not only after that take great delight in trolling them ..afterword's .even good players have had this yet it seems to happen all the time..my suggestion would be this if a new player calls it a noob lobby ..and some old player with a new account joins a lobby and they go out there way to kill a new person game then its a instant ban .seems harsh but its not fair and it kills the spirit of the game

@morrissey21 said in Why would you have left FAF?:

@nine2 Seen it time and time again a noob player will make a lobby only for some idiot with new account own them and not only after that take great delight in trolling them ..afterword's .even good players have had this yet it seems to happen all the time..my suggestion would be this if a new player calls it a noob lobby ..and some old player with a new account joins a lobby and they go out there way to kill a new person game then its a instant ban .seems harsh but its not fair and it kills the spirit of the game

Smurfing is against the rules and people have been banned for it before. Report them.

@redx said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Smurfing is against the rules and people have been banned for it before. Report them.

Usually it's not even smurfing. It's just two zero-rated players, one plays like a 200, the other plays like a -300, and he thinks he's been smurfed

I won't make any excuses for players who troll their opponents after winning, that's disgusting behavior

Smurf accounts get permanently banned by default, and, more importantly, action will be taken on the main account as well.

It is worth reporting smurfs. While we can't undo lost ELO points, justice will be served.

As arma473 mentioned, there may be false reports due to frustration of a loss or lack of game experience, but any Moderator is capable enough to handle those cases. In doubt, just report it and we will sort it out.

The newer members leave because they dont understand what is so amazing about this game. All they get are the older established users yelling at them all the time, but refusing to tell them what they are doing wrong, and how to improve. A lot of the higher ranks are guilty as sin for this. All of this is abusive behavior and pads the needs of a lot of the established players to bash other players to feel better about themselves.

Why would they stay with a 15 year old stale game, with unit balancing geared towards the more elite players tactics but screws over players who dont use the same tactics as them? There are better ways to use their time.

All they get are the older established users yelling at them all the time, but refusing to tell them what they are doing wrong, and how to improve. A lot of the higher ranks are guilty as sin for this

There are multiple channels on the Discord where you get feedback from better player and tips or discussions on how to improve, so this is just wrong.

In my humble opinion, there is a serious lack of a good rating system. Just making sure dead players don't receive rating points would greatly improve the system. I will immediately say in response to the fact that many will say that there will be a lot of snipes, I will say in response to this there have always been a lot of snipes and there will be a lot regardless of this. Specifically, sometimes I am very annoyed by the discrepancy between players and their rating. I think for many this will be a trigger to leave the game. (Sorry for Google translate)

@femtozetta said in Why would you have left FAF?:

All they get are the older established users yelling at them all the time, but refusing to tell them what they are doing wrong, and how to improve. A lot of the higher ranks are guilty as sin for this

There are multiple channels on the Discord where you get feedback from better player and tips or discussions on how to improve, so this is just wrong.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

There is for sure lots of incoherent screaming to be encountered in lower rank games, and its definitely not absent from higher ranked games either.

But yes, if one is able to tune out the unhelpful people there is lots of constructive criticism to be had too.

The problem here is that Mrdummas is one of those people who don't take advice and instead will argue everything you say. For he is always right.

He is literally one of the "special" aeolus dwellers that belongs on the blacklist...

And while his point would hold true from anyone else, it doesn't hold when it's spoken by him of all people.

I have yet to hear any advice from the higher ranks. All they say is "stop playing", or "you're beyond hope", or "you play like an 800". And when I clearly ask what I did wrong they stay silent and refuse to talk. In game or after. Their ego simply does not allow them to explain anything.

This is what i meant when I say the higher ranks older players are the toxic element in the community.

When I have a problem with a lower ranked player doing something wrong, i literally tell them what they're doing wrong, and more importantly what they should have done. I dont blast away and leave them bewildered. The opposite is what is the arrogant higher ranks do. All they want to do is take frustration on the easiest target. Usually they are the ones who gave up way before the rest of the team, but wont admit it.

And I have no idea wtf you are. Who is this, is it Prophet? lol

No you don’t. I’ve literally seen you mock people that ask questions about the game or client for years in aeolus. I have never seen you help anybody in a public setting and eventually foed you to stop seeing garbage in aeolus.

@monstratus said in Why would you have left FAF?:

In my humble opinion, there is a serious lack of a good rating system. Just making sure dead players don't receive rating points would greatly improve the system. I will immediately say in response to the fact that many will say that there will be a lot of snipes

Why do you think there will be a lot of snipes?
when you win your opponents won't get any rating anyway, so why would you spend resources on snipes instead of on winning?
The problem is though that now the optimal move would be to win and in the last moment snipe all your teammates, so you are the only one gaining rating. Since the goal of the rating system is to be the top rated player, so the optimal strategy will be to maximize your rating gain, while minimizing that of every other player.

Guy holds a push back 15 minutes and uses acu explosion to blow up a key unit push, gets 0 points cuz his ally making epic gc killed everybody

wonderful

I think there's a key question that needs to be discussed here:

How do experienced players pass on what they know?

It's like experienced drivers being able to teach new drivers. At some point we automate how we drive; we don't think about all those checks of mirrors and the ability to seamlessly change down a gear, indicate, check lanes and talk at the same time. For some people it takes a lot of work just to be able to describe what they do. Other people learn how to describe this and can train new drivers.

In my experience (in ANZ FAF) there are lots of people who can tell you what to do in the moment, but can't describe why or how they decide to do that. The most obvious example of this is when people say "press shift-G and then ...." - when my shift-G may be mapped to something completely different. This doesn't tell me why to build exactly four generators, or why to build that particular unit mix, or how to manage the factories I have or to not power stall.

And the real point is that players build up habits - not just of which units or structures they build but also of how they analyze the map and plan out what to do. A good player will be subconsciously checking the power and mass meters all the time, and will be able to pause all factories to get through a power stall without really having to think. A really good player will never even power stall because they've seen that they're getting close to it and have just built enough power. An ordinary player like me will know to build this many power generators at this point in the game to avoid a power stall, but will still hit the stall at some point and have to consciously work at that point to get through it. A struggling player will hit a power stall and will spend a minute or more trying to deal with it, distracting them from the rest of the game.

How did the great player know to avoid the stall? They probably only vaguely recognise that condition. They could try to describe the things they do - build generators now, pause factories now, restart production now, etc. We need to try to describe how we came to that conclusion - when the power draw went from a minor issue to something to deal with to a major problem that takes their full attention.

So my general advice for players lower than me is:

• keep zooming out and looking at the map.
• build radar coverage, all the time.
• build up habits of unit builds, factory builds, etc to minimise how much you have to think about what you're doing.
• start that T2 mex upgrade by three minutes - no later than four - or you'll struggle.
• watch your team mates and chat. Reinforce them, try to work together. Tell them what you're doing when you can.
• never blame another player for something that happened. No-one likes being told they got it wrong. Just accept it and move on.
• power stalls are much worse than mass stalls. Build a bit more power than you need, all the time.
• don't build fire bases unless you absolutely have to. Go around them when you see them. Long range artillery or experimentals win the fire base battle.
• the 'why did you do that' is more important than the 'how did you do that'.
• accept that you will lose games. Sometimes it's not your fault. Keep playing, keep trying to have fun.
• You can always improve - but it's rarely by doing exactly what you did last time. Try to keep expanding your repertoire of game tactics and play styles.

I hope some of that's useful.

In general we can help new players stay with the game by being welcoming, by being fun to play with, and by helping when we can.

Matr1 said something helpful in a game I was in a while back. I was facing a player much higher rated than I am, and I was struggling. Someone on my team criticised me for not being able to fight back effectively. Matr1 said "Paul's a 900 - don't expect him to play like a 2000." Sometimes my role in the game is to be the ablative shield that slows down their attack for long enough that the other players on my team. That's not exactly fun, because I'm struggling constantly, and I can't balance my economy and my forces as well as a high rated player can. But I still serve a role. Criticising me because I'm not as good as you doesn't help anyone. Supporting me to help me be more effective - either by just being there in game with forces to help defend, or by telling me what I can be doing to help - makes it more likely that I'll improve.

Hope that all helps,

Paul

My bone-stock addendum to the above:

1. Build units
2. Use them to engage the enemy

@ftxcommando said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Guy holds a push back 15 minutes and uses acu explosion to blow up a key unit push, gets 0 points cuz his ally making epic gc killed everybody

wonderful

Oh, who the F are you talking about.