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Why would you have left FAF?

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  • N
    nflanders @Brutus5000
    last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 09:38

    @brutus5000 said in [Why would you have left FAF?]

    You just can't tell all these people to just concentrate on a different things. They are experts in that area and their motivation relies on doing what makes fun there.

    Does FAF have no common goal? By goal, I mean a metric that can be measured, such as the number of players. Or do you not have a common goal and are you just free artists where everyone does what they want?

    A 1 Reply Last reply 12 Sept 2023, 15:10 Reply Quote 0
    • B
      BlackYps
      last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 10:37

      The overarching goal is the open and continued development of the game. There is no single metric to be measured that stands above all

      N B 2 Replies Last reply 12 Sept 2023, 11:25 Reply Quote 2
      • N
        nflanders @BlackYps
        last edited by nflanders 9 Dec 2023, 11:32 12 Sept 2023, 11:25

        @blackyps said in Why would you have left FAF?:

        The overarching goal is the open and continued development of the game. There is no single metric to be measured that stands above all

        The topic has the title "Why would you have left FAF?". Then why is this topic needed? Can't keep audience. Well, people are leaving FAF, but that doesn’t matter, the main thing is to continue development. I think the topic can be closed.)

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • B
          Brutus5000 FAF Server Admin
          last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 11:49

          If people state certain pain points we can address them to the associated team and ask for prioritization.

          He said, "I've been to the year 3000
          Not much has changed, but they live underwater
          And your great-great-great-granddaughter
          Is playin' FAF, playin' FAF"

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • B
            BlackYps
            last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 11:51

            Dude what is your problem that you are so cynical?

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • S
              snoog
              last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 12:40

              I don't think he understands you can't force volunteers to do things they don't want nor care about.

              N 1 Reply Last reply 12 Sept 2023, 16:34 Reply Quote 0
              • F
                FtXCommando
                last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 13:51

                this is all going into my shareholder report, personally

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • A
                  arma473 @nflanders
                  last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 15:10

                  @nflanders said in Why would you have left FAF?:

                  Does FAF have no common goal? By goal, I mean a metric that can be measured, such as the number of players. Or do you not have a common goal and are you just free artists where everyone does what they want?

                  Correct, FAF has no single metric or collection of metrics that the leadership has agreed on as being the central point of having a FAF project at all.

                  There are many contributors with many different agendas, some of whom barely interact with each other. The "balance" scene is very different than the "AI development" scene, which overlaps somewhat with the "survival maps" scene, and then there's different kinds of mapmakers, etc.

                  Everyone is not just a "free artist." There is a leadership structure. People have more freedom the farther they get from the structure. The leadership is most protective of game balance and "vanilla" gameplay. People have more freedom to do whatever they want if they're not trying to mess with the vanilla game.

                  It's wrong to suggest that there are no goals in common. Even if not everyone thinks 1v1 balance is important, the devs who do work on 1v1 balance do think it is important. Even if not everyone thinks AstroGap matters, there are contributors who care about this and make new AstroGap maps.

                  We don't need to appoint a "CEO of FAF" to pick out 5 KPIs so he can tell us that 75% of the contributors are doing nothing useful because their contributions don't assist FAF in meeting his favorite KPIs

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • N
                    nflanders @snoog
                    last edited by nflanders 9 Dec 2023, 16:41 12 Sept 2023, 16:34

                    @snoog said in Why would you have left FAF?:

                    I don't think he understands you can't force volunteers to do things they don't want nor care about.

                    Congratulations. After two years of discussions and 500 messages, we finally figured out
                    Why 90% of new FAF players will be gone after 2 years.
                    Because the volunteers and management do (in addition to technical support, thank you for that) what they like, but this is not interesting to most players.
                    As @ftxcommando correctly noted, the main arrival of players comes from casts where people love to watch the spectacle and play astro with a beer in their hand, and they are the majority.

                    S 1 Reply Last reply 12 Sept 2023, 20:26 Reply Quote 0
                    • C
                      clyf
                      last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 16:44

                      Is the suggestion to form the game around playing Astro Crater with one hand?

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • B
                        Broker @Sylph_
                        last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 17:44

                        @sylph_ I don’t see any pleasure for myself in this. the balance is still made for combat nerds.
                        that they would snipe me or something else. build a mavor in 30 minutes or a strategic bobbander in 9 minutes. and I can’t do anything. Why do I need all this?
                        I want to sit down with beer and whiskey and build a lot of tanks and have a big battle.
                        but no one plays it. and there is no choice on the main page.
                        so I'd rather spend my time and money on a good steak and wine.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • B
                          Broker @BlackYps
                          last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 17:47

                          @blackyps the game hasn't changed in any way.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • S
                            snoog @nflanders
                            last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 20:26

                            @nflanders said in Why would you have left FAF?:

                            Congratulations. After two years of discussions and 500 messages, we finally figured out
                            Why 90% of new FAF players will be gone after 2 years.
                            Because the volunteers and management do (in addition to technical support, thank you for that) what they like, but this is not interesting to most players.
                            As @ftxcommando correctly noted, the main arrival of players comes from casts where people love to watch the spectacle and play astro with a beer in their hand, and they are the majority.

                            This is a simple reality of a volunteer project like this. There is no solution other than funding magically appearing and being able to hire an actual workforce. As such there is really no reason for any of this discussion to be had.

                            N 1 Reply Last reply 13 Sept 2023, 10:06 Reply Quote 0
                            • T
                              ThomasHiatt
                              last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 21:18

                              Imagine how much more FAF would suck if all these people stuck around forever. If you could get rid of 100% of new players then everyone would be happy all the time and you wouldn't even need to do much tech support.

                              B 2 Replies Last reply 13 Sept 2023, 06:03 Reply Quote 0
                              • B
                                BlackYps
                                last edited by 12 Sept 2023, 22:27

                                @broker said in Why would you have left FAF?:

                                @blackyps the game hasn't changed in any way.

                                At this point you are oversimplifying so much that you are making a fool of yourself.

                                Relaxed playing with a beer in your hand is just not what is easily possible in RTS. It's ok to want that, and I think that is precisely the reason why RTS will never be a genre for the masses, but FAF is about delivering a good RTS experience, so it will always be stressful to play well.

                                B 1 Reply Last reply 13 Sept 2023, 06:09 Reply Quote 6
                                • B
                                  Broker @ThomasHiatt
                                  last edited by 13 Sept 2023, 06:03

                                  @thomashiatt not necessary. I understand that labor costs are important. so my suggestions are to minimize them.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • B
                                    Broker @ThomasHiatt
                                    last edited by 13 Sept 2023, 06:08

                                    This post is deleted!
                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • B
                                      Broker @BlackYps
                                      last edited by 13 Sept 2023, 06:09

                                      @blackyps I suggested making two sets. for different players. In my proposal, labor costs are minimal. I understand it.

                                      And so the game will remain a game of nerds. it's a pity.
                                      although nothing prevents you from doing an experiment.
                                      except for the desire and fear that now no one will play with nerds if there is an alternative)))

                                      B 1 Reply Last reply 13 Sept 2023, 11:09 Reply Quote 0
                                      • B
                                        BlackYps
                                        last edited by 13 Sept 2023, 08:06

                                        I only understood half of what you wrote, but everybody is encouraged to make a mod to produce different gameplay. In fact people already do that. The wars of glory mod changes quite radically how the game gets played. Maybe you should try it out

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • C
                                          Conny_Action
                                          last edited by 13 Sept 2023, 08:36

                                          i dont understand the apporach why a game should be balanced around the capabilities of mediocore players. you are always free to make 1k max lobbies or what ever (sry i dont want to assume anybodys rating or ingame capabilities:P). but why it should be balanced for people who doesnt even understand how to play flowing economy, or who are just playing inefficient and spamming t2 pds by default around mexes and not even reclaiming or that are on their endless eco scale trip (dont forget to build 100 e storage like a pro). to many matches lasts too long because nobody uses hard fighted advantages and instead going for "35 min t4 rush". you are always free to play like this but you cant complain about that you cant keep up like this.

                                          B 1 Reply Last reply 13 Sept 2023, 13:02 Reply Quote 1
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