Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?
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You can currently load the Cybran t2 Deceiver into a stinger and then load that stinger into an Atlantis / Czar giving them stealth.
Apparently this is classified as a bug and can get you banned if someone reports you doing this. I for one think that we should reclassify this as a feature and raise awareness of it (maybe by putting it as a tip on the loading screen) so people are rewarded for niche combinations.
Curious to see if people were aware if this bug and if they think that it should be reclassified,.
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A list of exploits that can get you banned is available here:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/203/list-of-banned-exploits-updated-22-03-2022?lang=en-USFrom a quick skim through I can't see anything about giving an Atlantis or Czar stealth via a deceiver, so I don't think this would get you banned.
I'd also be against something like this being banned. You can give transports stealth by loading a deceiver onto them, and it seems like a fun interaction that adds a bit of depth without being overpowered.
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v150 -
in logic of the game it seems just like the mechanic works. if it shouldnt work mobile stealth also shouldnt work while on regular transports.
which doesnt mean id call the atlantis now better because this works
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While we are here, thoughts about loading the alantus up with transports filled with units and moving it in and launching some drops?
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If putting deceivers into transports is allowed, then I don't see why putting those transports into an Atlantis/Czar shouldn't also be allowed.
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It should not be allowed. If it was that easy to implement stealth on big units, every big unit in the game would have stealth.
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What next? Saying I can't steal enemy engie and make his game ender cuz it comes from different faction?
It's such a niche scenario, faction and unit composition that I will genuinely congratulate anyone who does it in real game. -
Stuff like this is why Supcom is so unique, finally a decent use for the Stinger transport clamp
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Intel/counter-intel units, just like shields, should be offline while on transports.
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@maudlin27 said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
A list of exploits that can get you banned is available here:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/203/list-of-banned-exploits-updated-22-03-2022?lang=en-USFrom a quick skim through I can't see anything about giving an Atlantis or Czar stealth via a deceiver, so I don't think this would get you banned.
I'd also be against something like this being banned. You can give transports stealth by loading a deceiver onto them, and it seems like a fun interaction that adds a bit of depth without being overpowered.
if I'm not mistaken it is this category:
- Anything else that is breaking the game in some fashion.
Not referring to stealth working on transports, that is fine. But a stealth field working from inside the Atlantis or CZAR is not. You can do other glitches with the described approach and it is definitely not intended. I just didn't have the time to fix them yet
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@jip said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
Anything else that is breaking the game in some fashion.
It is not breaking the game, it's just your interpretation. There are multiple examples in other RTS games where different factions can interact in an unexpected manner: Medics in SC1 heal all ground Zerg units, devourers + corsair or valkyries annihilate air; similar in SC2 with healing Zerg units; billion different combos in WC3. Nowhere a combo is considered game-breaking, unless specified by administration, and usually devs programmatically forbid it.
It is not game-breaking in SupCom because: in 1v1 it is hard to steal enemy engies, you have to invest into T2 Cybran land, spend APM on manually loading deceivers into stingers, and then them into atlantis/czar; in 2+ player games, it's just a combo, players combine things in SupCom, like: everyone getting Sera shields, their own eyes of Rhianne, putting flares into Sera transports, navi using UEF shield boats, etc.
Unless the administration states it is not allowed, it is allowed. And if they do, their decision would get some players banned undeservingly for their creativity or if they heard it was possible. If the administration decides it is not allowed, they should write it into code instead.
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@melanol said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
It is not breaking the game, it's just your interpretation.
Interpretation as game lead
And I agree with you, if it isn't intended then it should be fixed in the code when that is possible. Which I didn't have the time to do yet, but perhaps I'll push it up the agenda.
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That interpretation should have some discussion attached to it instead of being implemented unilaterally. Melanol makes good points.
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I think that common sense wise it makes sense for Atlantis to be stealthed, but isn't the Czar larger than deceiver's stealth field? I feel like Czar should be an exception because of that.
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I don't think it breaks the game rules and I'd be sad if you patched it out.
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@slicknixon said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
That interpretation should have some discussion attached to it instead of being implemented unilaterally. Melanol makes good points.
Being able to give constant stealth a CZAR because of this glitch can hardly be considered intended, but if you want to discuss then go ahead.
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@jip said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
can hardly be considered intended
I have a secret for you: There are many things in games developers did not intent. Doesn't make all of them illegal. It's called creativity on the players' side.
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Great start of the 'discussion' with that attitude. I'd encourage you to dive into the technical details of how the glitch works before making snarky comments
A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned
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also i love that this is possible in the game mechanic and im for keeping it like this way, not working mobile shields on transports could be a foundation to argue that mobile stealth on sitngers should not be active. but then it shouldnt be active on regular transports as well.
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@jip said in Deceiver < Stinger < Atlantis / Czar Do you think this should be a bug or a feature?:
I'd encourage you to dive into the technical details of how the glitch works before making snarky comments
Not defending the attitude of Melanol, but the technical details are irrelevant to the players. We should discuss if we want that mechanic in the game and then decide based on that. I would guess that the technical details of factory attack move are not pretty as well, but we as a community decided to keep that.
