How come you don't play ladder?

• Everytime I look at ladder there are very few people queued and not many people playing

• I played 7 games two year ago when I first started playing FAF and stopped as I felt I needed to get beter before staring again

• The grey +/- 1500 is a lot and was not going downfast enough so I felt I would never got a white, accurate, rating

What made you stop playing ladder

Too much work, got to 1.6k and it feels like I either need to know the BOs or I'm going to get crushed by better players. Too much of a time investment to get better and also not finding players quickly.

Have you tried a ladder game? If so, what has the experience been to date?

Amazing, best FAF game mode. Feels like its the only place where T3 and experimentals are epic strong units and not just your day to day. Love how T1 and T2 have such a huge role and aren't trash after minute 10.

Also love the fact that agression is rewarded and stalling is punished. I absolutely hate with my whole being a match where nothing is happening because attacking is going to put you at a disadvantage.

How much often did you play it before?

everyday 3-6 matches

What would motivate you to play ladder once more or try it out.

mapgen only queue maybe, feel like 1v1 mapgen would be really good than our current state.

What you find uninviting about it since you have not tried it?
Lack of knowing who's playing, I see 5 people in queue, is it 5 800? is there a 1400 in there? Waiting multiple resets is pretty annoying not knowing if Im the odd one or what.

well i dont play ladder because the game maps are trash.. limited mexes... to time consuming. Yall Put noobs against pros.. Custom games have all the best maps to play on which gives you a good amount of mexes for each player . the matchmaking maps be SMall with 8 players for 4 v 4 . and this rating thing like( 700-1000), doesnt give you any bonus to being better. i went from 500-100- -200. all because of didnt understand the build orders lol. (Still don't understand.) But the most reason why is because I don't get excitement from it. Theres no real benefit of playing ladder or "custom games". you win a match go to the next battle. I think ya'll should do a battle pass . or something that would excite the player if he wins a match. SC is Dull Really . i love ScFa . Faf but i will delete this game if i can not enjoy the Thrill of battle.

I still think ladder would be much much better if you were given 3 maps and each person veto'd 1 and go. At least at relatively low levels. It's tough to queue it and never really have any idea what sort of map I'm signing up for, 20x20, 5x5, whatever, and have no control over it. Also not knowing if it will be a map I've never seen before, a map I've played a lot, etc.

I would love to play 2 maps for a month straight, will never be bored 4head

I hate playing ladder since I'm not that good player anyways. Ladder always puts me against 1500-2500 players. Never the same rated as I am. I have played about 35 ladder games, but stopped because there are always "pros" against me.

Yeah, git gut etc.

@hakkapeliitta Mind sharing the replay-IDs of those games? It's quite uncommon that the system puts you against ppl which are by far out your rating range. Yes, the first 10 games are a mess. But after that it stabilises quite fast.

@Hakkapeliitta That is really a concerning and alarming statement, which indicates that something with the whole ladder system is not functioning as intended. Which should be investigated.

Well, unless I checked the wrong player history - which I highly doubt -, your ladder games were back in 2018 (3 games) and 2017 (14 games) against enemies from ~500 to ~ -200 rating players. While you were around ~250.

I know some people are exaggerating their opinions, but can we stay at least at the ground, please.

@magge It looks like he's had 30 ladder games, with the 4 highest rated opponents having ladder ratings of 994 (roger), 678 (newcomer), 580 (TTTTTTT) and 509 (coca).

@hakkapeliitta said in How come you don't play ladder?:

Ladder always puts me against 1500-2500 players.

@hakkapeliitta Why say that?

The ratings of your opponents that I saw in the 1v1 ladder data from the most recent to the oldest had ladder ratings of: 36, 70, 123, 509, -1, 110, 264, 678, 204, 370, 580, 138, 281, 301, 124, 301, 348, 287, 261, -153, 144, 201, -156, -110, 994, 170, -65

1. The rank being visible to myself puts pressure on me to keep it. Thus I don't boot up ladder for a quick casual game.
2. Maps that are very build order dependent aren't enjoyable.
3. Not enough map-gen. Although map-gen these days is a bit same-same with what it outputs. Earlier iterations of map gen gave more diversity.
4. Too many rude individuals. Had to make my own mod to disable chat and shared it with friends before a similar mod became available in the vault. Having chat disabled by default in 1v1's should be implemented.
5. Changing the name might take a lot of the mental stress away and make it seem less competitive. Perhaps this is why some games have "ranked" and "unranked". All that's different is what's displayed and what they are called. Perception of what you are playing makes a big difference.

@arran I suggest the Scoreboard-mod from 4z0t then. You can enable "Show league instead of rating" which might help a bit

@hinthunter

• What made you stop playing ladder?
  I have not stopped playing ladder.

• Have you tried a ladder game? If so, what has the experience been to date?
  I just recently started ladder. It has been very good. My global rank has improved and balanced out as a result.

• How much often did you play it before?
  I did not know it existed until a few months ago. Now, I play it more than customs.

• What would motivate you to play ladder once more or try it out.
  Promote ladder more in case people don't know about it. (weirdos like me exist for some reason)

• What you find uninviting about it since you have not tried it?
  The only reason I had not tried it was because I didn't even know it was an option.

I know I'm late to the party but since I'm mainly a ladder player I thought it would be good to give my opinions on this.
I'm about 1700 ladder 1600 global.

As far as BOs go, I strongly agree with @ThomasHiatt and @FtXCommando that BOs aren't the problem in ladder, and are mainly used as an excuse. I've never made a BO for ladder and most other players, even higher level than me, aren't sweating over them except for tournaments. We just know when to build a few more pgens when there's reclaim, ect. and how the maps play out.

Some things that keep me from playing ladder more are:
The obvious 1 on 1 aspect, I only have myself to blame. (Not Fixable)

The extreme mental taxation of managing everything after a tiring day. (Not Fixable)

Biggest Issue I always get the same player when searching multiple games in a row, I assume this is just because they are the only one in my range searching. Can be very discouraging when losing 5+ games in a row because they are around 200-300 points higher and I usually quit playing after 1-3 losses in a row to clearly better players. (Maybe fixable?)

The lack of players on queue and extreme wait times, I can’t see if they are in my rating range (Somewhat Fixable) (Implement Thomas Hiatt’s Python Client Suggestion)

I stopped playing because most of the people I know don't play ladder. I play for the social experience.

On top of that my hands shake and I can not really accurately click on a lot of stuff. I will still play some of the Co-Op stuff with people since it is not as demanding with the attention span or speed and you can pause the game if you really need to take a break for a minuet. Not really interested in the competitive side of the game.

This is for when I did play.
I did not really care for everything being a choke point map for custom games. Its like everything needs to be a tower defense with no thought for strategy of how the game will flow or flank maneuvers. That's not what makes RTS games fun for me.

I don't play ladder because I am too old. I did the ladder thing over 20 years ago with StarCraft I and WarCraft 3. For folks such as myself, no amount of begging, pleading, or luring will get us to jump in. To play ladder properly simply requires too much dedication with regards to time that we may no longer wish to spend. Sixteen hour days nonstop is gruelling.

Maps can be a demotivating factor, you get some good maps, you get maps that your f***ed on that doesn't suit your style, it always boils down to T1 land spam for 10 minutes straight until the first player gets a T2 gun upgrade or accidentally upgrades a mex and wins on eco... not many naval maps and the ones that are naval are usually the default maps, maybe add some maps that discourage T1 land spam early on and say focus on air or naval (COUGH COUGH profile stats of units built COUGH COUGH).

Maybe a map preference option before you enter the queue, but also have to consider that if someone has played a map before multiple times and has a set build order then it can ruin the fun of other players.

Someone asked me in Discord why I don’t play ladder as the HintHunter. So to be fair to everyone, I’ll explain my reasons for not wanting to play it.

• I don't want anyone knowing how much or how little I am playing.
  -People like to dig into other people's profiles and I am not a fan of that. I like to play when I feel like it without someone's judgment.

• I don't like knowing who I am playing against or how much better he is or how much worse (i.e., rating).
  -Rating, in my opinion, is for my own self-improvement. I gain nothing by knowing who I am playing against. It just makes me nervous and it forces me to play into or against his habits if I have played against him before or not.

• Stress.
  -All RTS games are stressful because they require quick decision-making, multitasking and constant attention. SupCom FAF is no different. I want to be able to play for fun without a single care in the world. However, as soon as I lose to a worse player (a player who has a lower rating than mine), it just feels demotivating because it feels like I should have an easy time winning that.

• Time versus skill versus talent.
  -I lack time more often than not to play the game consistently. I always have extended pauses of not playing and then when I do come back, I am just not performing as well as I hope or as well as I was capable before.
  -Better players can shake off rust in no time. I cannot.
  -"Talented" players can pick up the game and do pretty well in 30~40 games. For instance, some players can reach 1600+ rating after only a few months of playing. I cannot.

So in short, these are my main reasons for not playing ladder…
-Not enough time to become good at the game via playing
-Seeing enemy rating/name discourages me from playing
-Games are increasingly more stressful if losing versus lower rated player thinking i should be playing better; not having such info would be better for me

I am liking the idea more and more of having anonymous ladder, like you don't know who you are playing and they don't know who they are playing. Takes away me knowing I "should be" winning/losing against opponent, just allows me to focus on the game.

@ArkAngel_

I am liking the idea more and more of having anonymous ladder, like you don't know who you are playing and they don't know who they are playing. Takes away me knowing I "should be" winning/losing against opponent, just allows me to focus on the game.

I put forward a proposal for it, but it got turned down. They have something different in plan, but it's not nearly as effective. It's just a separate 1v1 unranked queue with maybe, or maybe not, map-generated only maps. These changes are not sufficient or impactful enough for me to start playing.

Also, I was not invited in any of the talks about it, and that alone made me a bit salty because I put forth a lot of effort and evidence on how and why it would be beneficial. They agreed to decline it behind closed doors, and it was frustrating to deal with because I had no say in it whatsoever to defend my case or propose compromises where they could be made.