Add upgrade t2 shields for aeon

ZetRoy

@penguin_ said in Add upgrade t2 shields for aeon:

You are focusing too much on shield size. Shield size is not as important as shield hp per mass.

The size of the shield is very important, for example, where one seraph shield is enough, two aeon shields are needed, such cases on the dual gap map very often occur that one seraph shield closes all mass extractors, in order to close all mass extractors for aeon, two shields are needed.
Far fewer objects fit under an aeon shield than any other t2 shield.

ZetRoy

@Exselsior
The aeon shield is cheaper by 120 mass than the uef shield, the cheapness is due to the coverage radius.
But the absence of an upgrade to t3 is not due to anything, neither by price, nor by radius, nor by hp.

Anachronism_

@zetroy
You don't seem to appreciate the importance of mass efficiency. An Aeon T2 shield costs 480 mass but has 11,000 shield health, while a Seraphim T3 shield has 21,000 shield health for 3600 mass. In other words, 1 Seraphim T3 shield costs as much mass as 7.5 Aeon T2 shields. So, you can make SEVEN Aeon T2 shields for cheaper than you could make ONE Seraphim T3 shield, and the total shield health of those 7 shields would be 77,000, which is ~367% as much as the 21,000 shield health of 1 Seraphim T3 shield.

You talk about the shield size as so important. You can cover way more area with 7 Aeon T2 shields than with 1 Seraphim T3 shield, while spending less mass on the Aeon shields.

TheVVheelboy

Hello, did you know that normal maps have mexes spread out so that not even a Seraphime shield can cover them all?

For more interesting FAF tidbits subscribe to your FAF discord service powered by FtX hit squad.

Tagada

While I think T2 Aeon Shield is in a fine spot I don't really see this "Feature" of not being able to upgrade them as something that has a lot of meaning and value besides being annoying every now and then. In competitive 1vs1 games you basically never upgrade T2 shields to T3 so it doesn't matter for that game mode. In Team games, it happens but it really doesn't have much impact besides being annoying for the player that built the shields. I will look into including this in the next Balance Patch.

ZetRoy

@Penguin_
Shield radius t2 aeon 20
Shield radius t2 seraphim 28

Shield radius t3 aeon 35
Shield radius t3 seraphim 46

As you can see, the small radius is already compensated by the cheapness of the Aeon shield. The absence of an upgrade is not justified by anything.
In narrow areas it is not always possible to put a large number of shields.

Exselsior

@tagada Idk I think it's a buff in late team game situations for a shield that doesn't need a buff. It's a basically meaningless change in ladder, but not team games

Jip

@i_forgorthescene said in Add upgrade t2 shields for aeon:

Nice forum formatting lol...

Aeon	22,92	138/s	27s	150e	20	480
Seraphim	18.57	153/s	28s	250e	28	700
Uef	15.00	120/s	26s	200e	26	600
Cybran Ed2	15.2	88/s	25s	200e	21	460
Cybran Ed3	7.93	112/s	28s	300e	28	1260

Needs to be a proper markdown table, you forgot the ~~header~~ row separating the header / the content

ZetRoy

@Exselsior
Adding an Aeon shield upgrade does not enhance the shield's stats in any way, they remain the same.

Exselsior

@zetroy Shield micro is usually a sweaty late team game thing, but the ability to upgrade t2 to t3 to get a fresh shield is useful, hence it's a buff in certain scenarios over having to ctrl k and rebuild the shield. Which also kinda goes back to my general point: why are you even trying to upgrade from t2 to t3 often enough that this is such a problem, especially in contexts that you don't realize that it is, in fact, a buff to be able to do so?

snowy801

I think this would be a great quality of life change. Nerf it if you really must.

Exselsior

@snowy801 Yeah I mean it's fine if there's a nerf and then this is added as a QOL change I guess. I kinda like the faction diversity here though. There are actually interesting tradeoffs with the different approaches to shields between the four factions.

ZetRoy

@Exselsior
The upgrade is not a critical buff and does not affect balance or shield stats in any way. The aeon shield is already balanced by the coverage radius.

ZetRoy

The importance of shield radius.
The Aeon shield at the forefront can hold 21 objects.

The Seraphim shield at the forefront can hold 49 objects.

The Seraphim has twice the capacity of objects under the shield.

SpikeyNoob

@zetroy I have not read this whole thread so i offer no opinion. i just want to point out that bigger shields take much more damage since they cover more area. So its harder to miss the shield bubble and the shield will go down quicker since more is under it.

archsimkat

@zetroy I think that if you're trying to argue that aeon t2 shields are bad because a single 480 mass shield can only cover 11,088 mass of t2 pd, you're using them wrong...

wikingest

I think it was just an example, and people usually do not spend their games filling shields with t2 pd's.
But if example on FAF's "chessboard" is not good, then:
Aeon t2 shield 20203.14=1256 superficy
Sera t2 shield 28283.14=2462 superficy
Sera one covers 1.96 times more surface. Considering space lost underneath the shield also, two Aeon shields covers less useful space than one Sera shield. And two Aeon shields cost total of 960 mass, and consume/drain 300 energy. While Sera one costs 700 and consumes/drains 250 energy. And of course you dont always have space to put small shields everywhere. Much easyer to have overlapping and "blinking " shields with bigger shields. And not so many units that can totally (and always) miss an Aeon shield bubble. I suppose t3 arty can miss it, but can also fall two times in the same place...
So, I would like to point out, that shield size can be huge advantage, on static as well as on mobile shields.

edit: calculation marks have dissapeared.? I mean 20 multiply 20 mutiply 3.14 and 28 multiply 28 multiply 3.14

ZetRoy

@archsimkat
I argue that aeon t2 shield are bad because they cannot be upgraded to t3.
The absence of an upgrade to t3 can in no way be the right balance for a aeon t2 shield.
Aeon t2 shield is balanced by the fact that it has a small radius.

HollowSubmarine

Just curious, are the Aeon t2 shields meant to be unupgradable due to balance reasons or it's just some legacy part of the game that everyone get used to?

Tagada

Just some random legacy "feature"