Seriously when are you guys going to undo the Scathis changes
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- Scathis essentially removes the uniqueness of UEF Mavor experimental: the only piece of artillery that can reach the entire map
- Scathis was fine being a beast in the mid-short range
- Salvation has the same problem; it was fine being a quick shooting arty with t3 range
Quoting @Keytargonian "Whoever had the idea of giving Scathis infinite range deserves a shot"
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So cybran should not have a game-ender experimental?
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@zlo said in Seriously when are you guys going to undo the Scathis changes:
So cybran should not have a game-ender experimental?
Exactly, like in human species, races are supossed to be different. And that is what is cool, difference is nice, its richness. Diversity. Fxxx equality.
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Just make a mod and play with it. You can balance the game however you like.
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@hendrix said in Seriously when are you guys going to undo the Scathis changes:
Exactly, like in human species, races are supossed to be different.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. Races are just social constructs and there exist no significant taxonomic differences between races.
New Scathis is really quite an improvement over the old one imo. It is both balanced and quite iconic with the new fire cycle, and just very entertaining to watch as you can see by this cast here:
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Also scath has no infinitr range. And salvstion is 200k+ worth mass (nice t3 is worth 70). So i really think that you guys are just uef nerds and you want to have only big penislike mavor
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Scathis essentially removes the uniqueness of UEF Mavor experimental: the only piece of artillery that can reach the entire map
Scathis has half the range of a Mavor now (in the vanilla version it has the same range as a Mavor btw).
Also that aspect of Mavor is not really what makes it unique. It's the high damage and high accuracy that is most important.Scathis was fine being a beast in the mid-short range
If by being "fine" you mean completely worthless and never used then you are correct.
Salvation has the same problem; it was fine being a quick shooting arty with t3 range
Salvation was not changed at all in that regard, what are you talking about?
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Scathis has half the range of a Mavor now (in the vanilla version it has the same range as a Mavor btw).
Also that aspect of Mavor is not really what makes it unique. It's the high damage and high accuracy that is most important.Not for long!
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Race science and shitty balance takes, this post has it all.
The Scathis, Mavor, and Salvation are pretty unique but they all need to have very long range to be useable at all (due to their buildtime, cost, and low hp).
Asking to make a game ender arty short range for faction diversity is like asking for one faction to have slower ASF. It will make the unit useless.
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They are all stupendously expensive...
Don't understand why they put such ludicrously expensive units in a game but apparently it works with big teamgames at least.
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@valki said in Seriously when are you guys going to undo the Scathis changes:
They are all stupendously expensive...
Don't understand why they put such ludicrously expensive units in a game but apparently it works with big teamgames at least.
Watch a sentons and you can see how easy it is to get one, quite often need it to actually end the game.
There was one gridlock match I was part of where both rocks were lost, ended up being a standstill… the only way to break anything was to work as a team and rush a mavor, which luckily have enough an edge to turn the tide.
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@morax Not questioning their use, just looking at their price in a vacuum. Say a player has 10 mass points on the map "planned" for him, that's roughly 200 mass, meaning it takes 20 minutes to build on "average" T3 eco. If you were aiming for 30-40 minute games as the developer then you wouldn't implement this cost, again in a vacuum not considering the meta.
That makes me curious what kind of late game eco was normal in 2007 during initial balancing...
I want to stress I am basically completely wrong, just curious how and why
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@Valki I've made multiple Scathis in a single game before and I've been in games where both teams made 3+ Scathis. I feel like the normal late game eco in early supcom was just as strong, though also at that time I pretty much exclusively played super chill games that focused on eco so idk. But yeah, you're probably not going to see a Mavor or Scathis in a mid to high level 1v1, but you can see it in any level of high eco team games, even on classic maps like Seton's. There are big expensive units in the game because people like big expensive units, don't think that needs to be read into much more than that honestly.
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You can get to 1k mass income on 10 mexes in 30 minutes.
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I find this a funny topic because vanilla scathis was way more just an inferior mavor clone. Now there are actually some situation in which it might be better. On spread out maps scathis can do a lot more damage in a short time than mavor (Though mavor of course wins the game ender fight)
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Supcom was geared more to turtling because of t1 massfabs and mexes put out more, when far came out they changed those too for less turtling.
You forget reclaim to build game enders.
Watch a replay of the old scathis, they get built, move into range and then die. It's a near completely useless unit. It would be better to move into t3 arty range and build a base and then t3 arty rather build a short range scathis
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pre 2017 scathis was a monster that cost about 2 t3 arty and outputted 5-6 t3 arty worth of damage on 10x10 maps. Late game hilly/wonder/canis was decided by scathis rush. It was irrelevant on 20x20 because of the bad range.
Then the cost was increased and it became entirely useless.
Then it was brought in line with other game enders so Cybran now had their own niche in the game ender stage rather than either an entirely overpowered proto-game ender or entirely useless t4.
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Everything is fine just the way it is.
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I'd like to see the "Mobile" aspect of the Scathis to be useful somehow rather than just a way to build it underwater then crawl onto land. Perhaps the unpack/repack animation time could be reduced? Should not affect its power while making those treads not just for show.