Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor

Here are two of the pledges that a councillor makes upon assuming their duties:

• I will communicate professionally and avoid bringing FAF into disrepute.
• I understand that if I am unable to perform these duties, I will resign or be replaced.

Due to the messages made by nine2 in this thread:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1695/council-of-setons-exposed-part-1/

and due to an overreach of power as promo councillor shown in this thread:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1712/curbing-toxicity-in-faf/

I believe that nine2 has demonstrated that he is no longer capable of upholding the councillor pledges. I am therefore asking for the resignation of @nine2 as Promotions Councillor.

Edit: This thread is dedicated to nine2's actions and the call for his resignation. The moderation team will ensure that existing comments discussing other topics be removed or moved to a new thread, and that future comments are on-topic.

Hi archsimkat, this has been posted on the news. I have tried to be impartial in the posting - let me know if you would like any changes. In other news, as stated in 5 different places (eg this thread) I am totally happy to post news from candidates about the election.

Do you think councilors should be held to the pledge? I do. However do you know that basically none of the councilors (including me) took the pledge. I have fought long and hard to actually create the situation where councilors ARE accountable and MUST take the pledge. In fact I was a fierce proponent that councilors should not be candidates unless they took the pledge. Well, if you wanna know how that turned out, people can basically do whatever they want with no accountability whatsoever. Ftx has announced he will not take your quoted pledge at all and will make up his own pledge.

I'm with you 100%. Lets make it mandatory for all councilors to take the pledge and moving forward - remove them for breaking them.

If you can get the council to agree to that, you are a better man than I.

You might notice that some councilors are trying to save their own skin / look good / retain power / not commit to pledges.

I am not here to retain power. I am here to create change. Toxicity is a serious issue that should be addressed in this election.

If I am fired for giving a (potentially over the top) huge opposition to toxicity, I can sleep at night, believe me. I'm here to help FAF, not look good. I look forward to seeing what the 10,000 players think. Perhaps they disagree with me in which case fair call, I can accept that.

The way democracy works is [everyone talks shit about each other] then [someone wins]. There seems to be this idea from the community that I am somehow not allowed to talk while every other councilor can mouth of as they please. Am I some sub-councilor or what? Oh wait I write news therefore I must not post news about me. Well ... that's garbage. All councilors are offered the opportunity to post any news they want. In fact I have posted 100% of what councilors have asked me to post. If that is not good enough then it seems like you dont want an equal playing field - you want an unequal one where only I have to shut up.

And if election integrity is something that is something that must be fiercely enforced ... just you wait for part 2.

You want to help FAF when your clearly promoting an external game using the FAF player base to make money.
Your clearly utilising the news feed which is under your direct control to try and cause a biased election.
The only change your trying to make here is reducing FAF player base to increase your games player base so you make money.

Theyre not trying to save their own skin as Biass, FTX, Keyser, Turin any of the others do their job and they do it well. They do not cause issues to the level that you have.
Yes there is some toxicitiy there always is.
People have a difference of opinion. It always causes an issue thats life.

As from your previous post. "And if election integrity is something that is something that must be fiercely enforced ... just you wait for part 2".
Is this a direct threat the community of retaliation as you did not get your way.

I may not know the entire ins and outs of the council. Nor do I fully care. If Sheeo and FTX have a disagreement then I assume their arguing whether something is the best for FAF.
My issue is your clear abuse of your position.
That is why there is a call for your resignation not because of toxicity but due to the power abuse.

Dear @nine2 , the POs accusations in this thread are posed towards you and you allone. Please refrain from defecting from the topic or use this thread to accuse other persons, if you want to accuse them please do so in a different thread.
Regarding the topic itself: Sadly you, @nine2 have not been contributing towards a constructive debete on the issue you yourself brought up. When asked questions you deflected from them or left them unanswered. While the whole debate was going you were not trying to calm the debate down (which imo is the only reasonable thing to do atm since it devolved into an open argument between different council members) but instead you actively contributed to an even more heated debate unnecessary overly emotional wording.
At the current point my main issue with you is not that you broke a pledge. You continiously actated confrontational and provocative, seemingly without even noticing it, prooving a terrible lack of judgement, which imo is one of the worst things possible. Since you do not seem to learn from your misstakes and at all, I have to expect you to act with poor judgement in the future aswell.
In case this is just a massive missunderstanding, please elaborate what your deliberation process was in your actions in the last 3 days, especially regarding the original post, your post here https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1712/curbing-toxicity-in-faf/3 and the news post. As long as you cannot explicitly state what in each case

1. your goal was
2. possible strategies to reach your goal were
3. why you decided for the strategy you chose

with clear logical reasoning as in detail as possible (I will not accept any non logical agrumentation as an answer), I do not think that you are fit for your position. Please be aware that I will judge your fitness as a councillor based on your answer. I will use failures and incompletnesses in your logic against you, since I believe logical thinking and good judgement to be a core competence a councillor has to posess.

@nine2 said in Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor:

You might notice that some councilors are trying to save their own skin

No offense but your latest news post looks exactly like this, a half hearted attempt to retroactively appear unbiased

Hi Turinturambar. My goal with the newspost was to reach the common man. We know full well that what the aggresive vocal discord/forum people think. Basically everyone I talk to personally is fed up with attitude in FAF. I wanted to know what the 10,000 common man thought and let him know that he had the power to create change.

Do you want to know what the common man thinks?

If yes> Why don't we find out? Poll on newshub? People can vote in election?

If no > why?

this formally answers your motive, but completely lacks any insights in your delibaration process, which I explicitly asked you to clarify. Please proove that your actions are based on logical decitions and not emotional affect.

Hi Turin, I'm not really here to answer your point by point questions to be honest.

The issue as I see it is the 10,000 want change but don't know how to get it. That is what I was trying to give them.

If I'm right > I've helped FAF achieve their goal

If I'm wrong > no one will vote the way I recommended - no harm done

I cast a bet that people think the way I think they do. Lets see how out of touch I am.

@nine2 said in Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor:

Hi Turin, I'm not really here to answer your point by point questions to be honest.

Dodging questions like a real-life politician.

@nine2 said in Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor:

I cast a bet that people think the way I think they do. Lets see how out of touch I am.

Yep you are out of touch. That is the most selfish attitude one could have

@speed2 said in Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor:

@FtXCommando you did more work than any player councillor before you
But so did nine for promotions.
So I find accusing other volunteer contributor of not doing enough work pretty absurd.
You make it sound like all promotion work would have to be done by a single person.
I dont think he stopped anyone else from doing more promotion work.
So please find better arguments than your feeling of someone else not doing enough work...

On the contrary, he can go ahead and not do things. I don’t care if he doesn’t address retention, not his job. Hell, I wouldn’t even care if he didn’t do external promo but instead either found somebody else to try investigating it or told me to find somebody else. He could even just ask me about the retention issue and I’d tell him the current plans to work on it. Just don’t hide lack of work behind excuses like retention and then use said excuse as a false draping on your own personal problems.

If he claims that this is such a huge crisis, I’m allowed to inquire as to why his current and prior actions do 0 to address it. If they do 0, then the narrative that he is doing this “for the players” can be dropped and we can instead focus it either on “contributors” or “regulars” or “councillors” or whatever other group he wants to say he is working for here.

Literally made an account on the new forum for this...

you wanted some replies from someone not involved in the politics, here you go: This shit being in the news thread is really fucking weird and a bad look. This whole thing reeks of internal politics and abusing a position.

And on an earlier point on retention: tbh, toxicity in faf's kinda bad, but main reason I've seen from people as to why they don't play / don't play more is that it's hard to get good games / play well. Getting flamed upon doing poorly was part of that... but that's about getting flamed in the game itself, not that there's people being rude on the forum. Most players don't ever engage with the forums after all, or even the faf discord.

@nine2 said in Calling for nine2 to resign as Promotions Councillor:

Basically everyone I talk to personally is fed up with attitude in FAF.

This may be a result of biased sampling. Like, of course you won’t hear from the people who are not fed up, because they aren’t fed up. Naturally the only opinion you hear will be from the people who are fed up.

Also there is the echo chamber effect of being more likely to surround yourself with people who share a similar view to you because naturally they make you more comfortable. That doesn’t mean they are the majority.

@azroc

I agreee Azroc. I have no idea who did what. But posting internal conflicts like this on the news page of a video game is about the most amateur thing you can do. But then again, it is an amateur project after all. I just hope all the childish play at politics doesnt discourage the awesome people of this community that contribute their time and expertise on actually maintaining this game.

@FtXCommando
Please stop gaslighting. There has been a lot of toxicity in Discord and on the Forums, in addition to helpfulness and friendless. We live in a world with lots of shades of gray.
You/biass/etc are presumably on your 'better behavior' for the current election/current politics/and because another major developer threatened to quit if certain toxicity wasn't curbed.
There are so many example of toxic/dismissive/condescending behavior on Discord/forums from this past year/etc. If you want examples, I'd like to refer you to the many in the 347 post PC thread.

Why do all of you guys do this "a certain major contributor" thing as though I'm unaware that you're getting PMs from nine (nice one btw nine) about Council chats that I've had with Brutus? Are you putting some charade up for the audience reading the thread or what?

Yeah, I told Brutus he can pm me examples of my behavior that he dislikes so I can get an understanding of where the line he doesn't want me to cross is. The impact this has had on my behavior is that I spend less time giving Feather and Adjux the time of day and just foe'd them. Also don't get how biass would have his behavior impacted at all. He doesn't represent me and he isn't up for election.

Rarely see toxicity in the Discord, don't consider it a problem, and nobody that is currently helping out or has participated on the Discord has ever approached me or anybody else about the environment there. The only gaslighting going on here is you guys and your constant "oh we have dozens upon millions upon billions of secret PMs" when I've received and seen nothing but a helpful Discord server.

@ftxcommando
I've literally complained about Discord/Forum toxicity on Discord and on the Forums, and it's not like I'm the only one or something... You are either lying or have an extraordinarily selective/warped memory.

In regards to not naming people by name, I often do that to provide anonymity to whomever it is, and I imagine some others do that as well.