Im done with billy nukes
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If it was to be nerfed (e.g. by reducing speed, range, or giving a VFX to indicate the target when zoomed in) I hope that the minimum time between firing 'feature' could then be removed due to how unintuitive it is
I also worry that anything good the UEF gets is nerfed because when viewed individually it is strong (billy nuke, novax), with nothing else given to the UEF to compensate. I.e. whether a unit is too strong shouldn't just be considered in isolation, but also in the wider faction context.
Plus, in terms of counters, Aeon TMD ignores the billy nuke health (albiet billy can just go over its head to strike further back targets); Cybran just needs a single loyalist; Seraphim has mobile T3 shields that [edit: Looked up the wrong shield before: have 10k health (testing in sandbox 2 overlapping mobile shields meant a billy nuke dealt 250 damage to units under the shields)] and UEF in theory could make a shield SACU to cover most of their army as an alternative to TMD-creep
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@Caliber said in Im done with billy nukes:
only cybran have a mobile counter to it
Seraphim as well cause of t3 shields
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@Sainse I have tested sera mobile shields and I dont see them as a counter to billy
Billy damage = 12,250 Sera mobile shields health 10,000 leaving 2,250 damage to units under the shield and kills the shield so they cant even recharge
at best it protects the units from being one shot, it reduces damage, but does not prevent damage.
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@Nomander the projectile's motion need not be flat. By deciding how the billy flies you can adjust how valuable intel is to dodge it - make the landing take a proportionally larger chunk of the flight time, or a projectile that starts off fast and slows down as it goes, and scouting is less relevant.
I personally would like a reduced billy range more than tweaks to its speed, and even a reduced ACU TML range to be honest, but I would have thought it to be a more radical suggestion since it's very counter-intuitive that an upgrade to the tml have shorter range, and since it impacts billy's performance against static targets which I didn't think was the problem. This is why I suggested what I considered less drastic.
If you did go for the range reduction, would you let players still fire regular TMLs after upgrading to billy? If yes, how would reloading work? I don't care either way, just wanted to know what you thought.
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@Caliber I didn't know this. Do multiple stacked shields survive?
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@phong Yeah I considered some dynamic flight characteristics and what came to mind to me was slowing the projectile down as it approached, like Seraphim missiles, which was a bit unintuitive so I discarded the idea. Making the Billy fly higher and and take a long time to go downwards is a better idea.
I would have thought it to be a more radical suggestion since it's very counter-intuitive that an upgrade to the tml have shorter range
Imo it is not an "upgrade" to TML but more like an evolution. It isn't an unusual game design to have the next step of something have a similar design with different purpose. This is already reflected in Billy's missile cost: you can no longer use it to kill T2 mex efficiently (and T3 mex are good targets by a small margin).
and since it impacts billy's performance against static targets which I didn't think was the problem.
With how many great targets Billy has, I don't think losing out on Billy-ing bases because it has TML range is something people will miss out on. Also it is much more exciting to transport/teleport in range of a base to Billy it, so maybe it would be a positive change for the gameplay vs static targets.
If you did go for the range reduction, would you let players still fire regular TMLs after upgrading to billy?
It is not necessary to be an option because Billy can always get a use, even in a static late game with tele (which you conveniently have the power for when maximizing Billy load speed), so people will never feel like they lost out on significant power from upgrading to Billy.
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Do multiple stacked shields survive?
On paper, 2 shields survives because it's 10k + 3k overspill damage + 2.25k remainder damage = 15.25k total vs 20k HP.
In reality, the engine handles the AoE damage and shield entities with difficulty (or we have a shield bug, hopefully not), so 12k dmg gets blocked completely by every single shield in AoE range despite the shield being behind another shield, so all shields touching the 12k dmg range get disabled. Afterwards, 250 outer damage hits everything, even the shields that blocked 12k dmg by stacking up together, and these shields only have 400 HP. T2 shields have only 100/150 HP.
There is a point where you can spam enough shields to block all the damage fully, but it requires more researching how shields work.
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@maudlin27 said in Im done with billy nukes:
I also worry that anything good the UEF gets is nerfed because when viewed individually it is strong (billy nuke, novax), with nothing else given to the UEF to compensate. I.e. whether a unit is too strong shouldn't just be considered in isolation, but also in the wider faction context.
Imo the UEF on the whole need a bit of a nerf
Billy nuke = arguably the strongest com upgrade allowing the acu to destroy all t3 armys without risking the acu (aswell as telebilly lol)
Percy = Strongest land unit
Broadsword - strongest air unit
Spearhead = only t3 mml
Ravager = only t3 point defense
Novax = best intel unit and very effective harrasment unit
drones = no other faction has drones
Mavor = strongest artillery / strongest unit in the game
fatboy = land exp that can destroy any other exp without even getting scratched
acu = T2/gun/shield or shield nano gun very versatile acu
Atlantis = requires ground firing from battleships
sparkys = great t2 build power
continentals = stongest transport for transporting the strongest T3 land units = most powerful drops.
anymore I missed?
as well as all that they have no real weakness, shields are strong arty is strong most HP for buidlings ect
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@Caliber said in Im done with billy nukes:
@maudlin27 said in Im done with billy nukes:
I also worry that anything good the UEF gets is nerfed because when viewed individually it is strong (billy nuke, novax), with nothing else given to the UEF to compensate. I.e. whether a unit is too strong shouldn't just be considered in isolation, but also in the wider faction context.
Imo the UEF on the whole need a bit of a nerf
Billy nuke = arguably the strongest com upgrade allowing the acu to destroy all t3 armys without risking the acu (aswell as telebilly lol)
Percy = Strongest land unit
Broadsword - strongest air unit
Spearhead = only t3 mml
Ravager = only t3 point defense
Novax = best intel unit and very effective harrasment unit
drones = no other faction has drones
Mavor = strongest artillery / strongest unit in the game
fatboy = land exp that can destroy any other exp without even getting scratched
acu = T2/gun/shield or shield nano gun very versatile acu
Atlantis = requires ground firing from battleships
sparkys = great t2 build power
continentals = stongest transport for transporting the strongest T3 land units = most powerful drops.
anymore I missed?
as well as all that they have no real weakness, shields are strong arty is strong most HP for buidlings ect
This is possibly the (lets put it in a friendly way) .. weirdest.. listing i have ever seen. You are literally just listing things as to how they work.
Lets go for cybran:
Brick = strong and versatile land unit
wailer = more dps than broadsword
t2 shield = cheapest shield
monkey = cheapest experimental and strong
scathis = huge area of effect
acu = only acu with stealth, kills others without getting damaged
t2 engies = good t2 build power
mobile stealth fields = mobile stealth fields = most powerful drops
And so on
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@Nuggets My point was UEF have no weak points unlike other factions, can you tell me one area that uef are weak in?
Such as Cybran shields and PD are weak.
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@Caliber said in Im done with billy nukes:
@Nuggets My point was UEF have no weak points unlike other factions, can you tell me one area that uef are weak in?
Such as Cybran shields and PD are weak.
Imo worst t2 navy and bad experimental stage
Btw, considering cybran shields weak is insane. Yes 1 to 1 maybe, but they are the cheapest and fastest to build, so i would consider them the best. Also cybran pd is very good vs t1 as it has 0 overkill. Uef pd (especially t3), does.
Not to mention all the things you listed earlier are just one side of the coin. You listed what they are good at but not the negatives of them. For example percies are very bad vs spam
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worst t1 bomber worst t2 gunship worst destro worst frig worst cooper worst mobile shield worst hover tank
harb is beat t3 land unit not percy
broadsword and wailer are practically interchangeable
spearhead only good part of uef t3 land
ravager is ravager
novax does same intel as eye for 10x the cost yes
uef drone upgrade is dogwater and the worst acu upgrade next to aeon teleport
mavor is 3rd place in the list of game enders only ahead of scathis
fatboy is a joke and almost always worse than any other mainline land t4
you didnt even list good acu versatility, sera definitely the most versatile acu anyway
atlantis is only good because uef torp capacity is ass, shame it takes until t4 stage for uef to have a genuine response to subs
sparkies are good
if ur continental dropping percies ur losing more games than ur winning, 2 percies kill t2 mexes in one shot, 6 serves no additional purpose other than to get shot down by 6 asf and donate half a monkeylord to the enemy
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Let's focus on the billy and not turn this into an "overall UEF balance" thread
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Deribus is right lets focus on the billy
I propose two changes
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reduce the range by a third meaning the acu will be slightly more exposed in order to use it.
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if the damage of a normal missile is 6k lets keep it at 6k and make the billy an aoe upgrade to the regular missile. (so at least some t3 units can survive)
perhaps a cost reduction could be in order with these changes to match
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