Telemazer - time for change?
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@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
That's enough mass to build the pgens to finish teleport in a little bit over a minute without harming your team's net spent eco.
Tell me more about how you understand that if you have that many core bases to afford other ways to win the game and prevent the enemy going tele. There are many things which cost less than 27,000 mass, counter and either counter tele or win you the game. If making like 10 mercies and some air scouts for like 3k mass is too expensive for you, then I dont know how to help you.
This may come as as shock to you, but the enemy has the same number of core bases, and you might not be Cybran or at least not want to cheese with tele!
Nukes cost about the same, also can go everywhere, have massive AOE, need actual T3 and lots of E to defend a small area and dont rob the enemy team of APM. Oh and they have submerged, mobile stealth launchers.
Nukes were also recently nerfed, much for the same reason. They're also far, far easier to scout with enough notice than tele is, and SMDs offer a large no go range for nukes.
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@mazornoob said in Telemazer - time for change?:
@ftxcommando said in Telemazer - time for change?:
4 core bases require 10 pd each = 40 t2 pd, say there is an smd/arty base somewhere else for another 10 needed t2 pd, that's 27,000 mass in protection.
That's enough mass to build the pgens to finish teleport in a little bit over a minute without harming your team's net spent eco.
Doesn't that argument work for nukes as well? You need at least 3 SMD to somewhat defend from a nuke on Setons, which is 1.5x more than the nuke costs. Even then you can e.g. nuke the islands or naval production.
Yeah that’s why nukes are insane and were nerfed several times now.
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I dont like the teleport mechanic, but I think it should be left in the game. I think that a good way to balance it would be that enemy teleports within omni range it is pinged as a nuke ping would be, rather than just the visual icon. This would give a few more seconds of time to move units into position.
Teleport in higher rated teamgames does not improve the game, does not require much skill and does not carry much risk.
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@ftxcommando 100% agree telemazer is a horrible mechanic for the game.
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On a serperate note nukes still need a harder nerf so stupid to lose a game just cuz you didn't scout and area for 2 min. And the risk reward is also ridiculous for example 1 nuke which can kill 150k mass while only risking 25k mass or whatever worst case scenario the guy just nukes something else and its extremely rare that it actually doesn't pay for itself or he holds it makes 60k mass in starts snipes the smd then kills 150k mass and wins the game.
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150k mass in ur base and u couldnt spare 10k to make and load an smd
and if he makes a nuke and 60k mass worth of strats, you should in theory have something worth 70-80k mass to kill him with
unless all of that 70-80k mass went into t3 pgens/mass fabs/ras bois, in which case you deserve to get punished -
@waffelznoob said in Telemazer - time for change?:
150k mass in ur base and u couldnt spare 10k to make and load an smd
and if he makes a nuke and 60k mass worth of strats, you should in theory have something worth 70-80k mass to kill him with
unless all of that 70-80k mass went into t3 pgens/mass fabs/ras bois, in which case you deserve to get punishedFunny how this logic translates pretty nicely into teledef.
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The people who say that tele gets easily scouted, I mean if t3 acu without any engies on that is staying under water you have no chance to see if the ACU gets upgraded into telemazer. In fact, if he upgrades on their base with assist, does not particularly mean he upgrades tele, he might upgrade stealth/cloak to get more hp or tech 3 for same reason. Whereas nuke is definetely seen and can be easily scouted, like u literally see the building itself.
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I'm sorry for ever doubting you, The ThecodeMander. I hope we can put our past differences aside and continue as friends.
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@gabitii Considering when people usually make tele (late game, cybran player on the losing team with lots of PGens), the infrastructure it needs, the length of the upgrade (not much late game takes that long and munches that much E to the point it often isnt all out assisted) in many cases you dont even need to scout.
Teledef on important things also defends you from other things going tele like the sera sacus which are viable to remove SMDs.
The cost of protecting the really vital stuff from tele is really not that much compared to the cost of protecting from a nuke.
I have seen the fact it doesnt show up on the minimap as a special unit come up a bit though so that could be a really good idea IMO instead of increasing the time for something that isnt really that viable at the moment and making it pretty much pointless. Maybe the balance team wants to rework it like they're doing with mercies at the moment, who knows.
IMO a much easier first step would be to make the tele portal sound louder/more distinct since the opinions on it being heard are mixed right now. I hear it just fine but I've also heard from people who basically never hear it. A minimap icon type thing I think would be a really good change with no downside, but on that point I've also heard that it is technically more challenging to accomplish which makes it a future possibility at best.
@waffelznoob said in Telemazer - time for change?:
I'm sorry for ever doubting you, The ThecodeMander. I hope we can put our past differences aside and continue as friends.
I was just trolling dont worry about it. From what I've read/heard lately theres a lot of salt aimed at things that snipe ACUs. I'm not sure I agree with all positions on both sides and I'm reasonably happy to agree that the way tele works right now is not great for a lot of people but I also think that changing the tele time is not the solution here.
IMO taking options off the table, be they snipes or not is not the way to go since it is actively reducing the scope of viable plays and what makes FAF fun IMO is the breadth of available of options at any given time. What should be focussed on more is that currently tele is catching people out because it is too subtle for how some people play the game and that there are things we could do to improve that aspect of tele for those people instead of limiting its viability and what you can do with it since I think this is marginal right now given its costs.
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@waffelznoob time to go search through bullys replays to find a game where he loses to nuke that he didn't scout
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@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
@gabitii Considering when people usually make tele (late game, cybran player on the losing team with lots of PGens), the infrastructure it needs, the length of the upgrade (not much late game takes that long and munches that much E to the point it often isnt all out assisted) in many cases you dont even need to scout.
Teledef on important things also defends you from other things going tele like the sera sacus which are viable to remove SMDs.
The cost of protecting the really vital stuff from tele is really not that much compared to the cost of protecting from a nuke.
Oh really? Shall I send u bunch of replays on setons for example when air player stops air for 30-50 seconds upgrades tele and kills ur grid whenit is like 20th minute? Teledef will not prevent ur grid to be killed, it just kills the acu. So the enemy suffers some damage as they dont produce air for 30 seconds but instead ur grid is in ruins and the air is completely lost. As it is a fullshare ur team is pretty much lost.
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ur legally only allowed to explain a unit has counters if you have never in ur life died to it
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@thewreck you can lose like that all the same because you were late to scout t2 or t3 air, or a t4 rush while you're ecoing up more.
the only difference is that it's actually easier to scout nukes because u have t3 spy planes and omni at that point in the game.t2 air is way harder to scout and react to than a nuke. I even frequently scout a nuke after its done and i still get an smd up in time
i actually have a mod that gives nukes a super obvious icon and it helps a lot, you should get one too if you haven't already
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@gabitii Sounds like youre more annoyed that in a fullshare game, yeeting your ACU into the enemy to do damage is kind of OP because it only robs the enemy team of 1 person of APM and solidified the eco?
I dont see how any ACU doing late game damage in a one way tele trip (which changing the tele time wont stop) is different to someone making gun lots of OC and yeeting themselves somewhere sensitive to do as much damage as possible which ends in a com bomb, and the enemy team needing to make one less HQ to scale T3.
To each his own I guess.
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@gabitii said in Telemazer - time for change?:
Shall I send u bunch of replays on setons for example when air player stops air for 30-50 seconds upgrades tele and kills ur grid whenit is like 20th minute?
Are we optimizing for the average game, or for the exceptions?
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@indexlibrorum What holds true on setons regarding telemazer holds true for any large map, lol
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What if the laser upgrade is more like the 2nd gun upgrade for Sera ACU? More against units than for telesniping.
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Guys, it becoming fucking horrible of how broken is telemazer, is nothing to react properly on telemazer, I have no idea of why teleport was buffed. I am not against teleport mechanics. On the big maps with full share it is fucking imbalanced shit. cybran acu can just fly over the map and kill everything which is not covered by anti-tele. Why u even give cybran such an imbalanced mechanics? I mean why is it so hard to make teleport and lazer in one slot? You on high rate are "gentlemen" and do not usually teleport, but there are guys in 1000-1600 rate who do it every fucking game. Why they do it? Cause it is imbalanced, in full share games you basically do not lose anything except for resources invested in it. But it does it is nothing compared of what cybran acu usually kills. Please just put teleport and laser in one slot. There is a reason why sera acu tele is not op and it is because advanced nano-repair and teleport are in one slot. It would also be op if it was in one slot, why not give sera such an option?
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ага а биллинюку и телепорт в разные слоты
