Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread

Nex

@sylph_ Yeah, wasn't saying it didn't matter
The "new" sub balance in the patchnotes only refers to t2 torps vs t1 subs tho right?
And for that it doesn't matter if the sera torp beats the sera sub. For everything else it totally matters, but I have also no Idea how significant that is.

Sylph_

@nex said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

The "new" sub balance in the patchnotes only refers to t2 torps vs t1 subs tho right?
And for that it doesn't matter if the sera torp beats the sera sub.

I don't believe the goal of the new "sub balance" (t2 torps vs t1 subs, as you mentioned) is about racial balance though - I think it's more about the strength of subs and torpedo bombers in navals fights, irrespective of race.

If I'm right about this goal, subs dying to seraphim torpedo bombers this quickly definitely does seem to matter, in that the goal of these patch changes hasn't been met in the seraphim mirror.
Is it 'fair'? Yes, absolutely; in the sense that both players have access to the same tools (being the same race). But "doesn't matter", just because it's 'fair' for each player? I don't think so.

(Sorry if this sounded nitpicky at all btw - it was intended only to further explore discussion. I appreciated your reply and the discussion it invites.)

Nex

@sylph_ said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Is it 'fair'? Yes, absolutely; in the sense that both players have access to the same tools (being the same race). But "doesn't matter", just because it's 'fair' for each player? I don't think so.

Yeah, I also thought about that. It would also matter for teamgames, where the air player is sera but your direct navy opponent is not. (But I will ignore that at least and assume a 1v1 scenario)
And in a 1v1 I think this falls under nice faction diversity, as subs will just be weaker for both players in that specific matchup.
So it matters and changes the matchup, but to me the important thing is that the whole game is still balanced and I'd consider it a positive even, as this changes the value of subs in that matchup making it more unique

Sylph_

@nex Did you get a chance to read my earlier mention of a single seraphim torpedo bomber being able to destroy 2 UEF cooper torpedo boats defending one another?

I think there's potential for more than just sera-vs-sera to be affected by it.

I totally like the idea of racial identity, and would hate to see it removed, but it does feel a bit 'extreme'...
Most 'counters' in subcom tend to be more in the range of 'double' when talking efficiency or counters etc. '4-5times' feels a bit much.

If their bombed torpedoes split into a total of 6, it would still be miles higher than the 2 for UEF, 2 for cybran, and 3 for aeon... But not so crazy as the 9 currently.

In fairness, this change from 9 to 6 would still allow the mirror player to kill sera subs in 2 torpedo bomber passes - but I could better see that as a 'matchup quirk', especially given the difference of seraphim submerged destroyers, if their torpedo bombers weren't just basically ignoring torpedo defense!

deletethis

@Sylph_

fixed

edit: clarity

Sylph_

This post is deleted!

Sylph_

@deletethis Sorry, spotted the link now!

So it was a bug that let them overcome torpedo defenses so well by being untargetable?!? Eesh! I kinda liked the racial diversity of it (despite thinking it was a bit extreme).

(clarification - I'm one of those folk that doesn't really differentiate between 'bug' and 'feature')

Is there a way my testing this release immediately, or do we have to wait?
(I wanted to know whether the Uosioz completely loses its ability to circumvent torpedo defenses? Or whether it's just reduced, but still significant)

Deribus

@Sylph_ damn my dude, got commitment issues?

Sylph_

@deribus Sorry, I edit lots. I didn't realise it would spam people's notifications. I'll try not to do it, knowing this, in future.

deletethis

@sylph_ I don't like going OT, but by all means, keep editing your posts, it's a forum!

Nothing worse than a single person making a series of posts in a row instead of editing.

Sladow-Noob

I'm the same once I realise "they could misunderstand XY" -> Since it only affects the mods with spam and they chose to become a mod... Just continue it, their fault!

ComradeStryker

Wait till Deribus finds out how many times I edit a post...

~ Stryker

Deribus

I'm not actually bothered I just found it amusing