Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly

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Please for the love of god they're destroyers this should not be happening.

destroyers.meme

I am not sure how to further add input to this discussion at my low skill level. Perhaps Seraphim destroyers are overpowered in such a way that I do not comprehend (this is not what I have been told, I have always been advised aeon destroyers are op) and that this is a manner to balance this.

But if it is not, and simply a legacy of the base game, I would humbly petition that a low ditch that a two farmers and their sister wife raised with a shovel in half a day's work should not completely counter their navy to ground capabilities.

Here's a replay according to the guideline but honestly no need to watch it the picture says it all.

I've had this exact issue lose me the game on Seraphim glaciers too.

I hope better players than me can discuss the issue and explain either why it is necessary or unnecessary.

Thanks!

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@snowy801 said in Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly:

Perhaps Seraphim destroyers are overpowered in such a way that I do not comprehend (this is not what I have been told, I have always been advised aeon destroyers are op)

Aeon destroyers can do the most damage. They have a massive cannon and nice torpedoes. Seraphim destroyers have a significantly lower maximum possible DPS.

But if you're paying attention, it's not that hard to move your navy around to dodge Aeon destroyer shots. And Seraphim destroyer beams are undodgeable. So there is good and bad about both factions' destroyers.

Aeon destroyers are much better at attacking stuff on land, compared to Seraphim destroyers. But Seraphim as a faction has cruisers that spam tactical missiles, this gives Seraphim a lot more ability to attack land-based buildings compared to Aeon.

So it all balances out.

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The seraphim destroyers are not designed for shore bombardment. Their cruisers are brutal in that regard.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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@jip said in Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly:

The seraphim destroyers are not designed for shore bombardment. Their cruisers are brutal in that regard.

Not really. They are quite easy to counter.

There is no specific balance reason why sera destroyers can't hit on land. It's just this way because of the firing arc of them and would be nice if it got fixed.

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They have beam weapons - it has no firing arc. Any fix would require to rework the unit to not have a beam weapon. Another approach would be to fix the aim bones of various units. It would still make them significantly worse at shore bombardment in comparison to other factions because they're easy prey to terrain bumps.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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What if you just raised the elevation of the turret?

You know, like GC has a really high turret starting point.

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Aeon destroyers were the best destroyers, at least until the last path, but that does not mean that they were overpowered. Aeon has largely the worst t1 navy. And almost no navy fighting or bombing capacity on croisers. They dont have much else on t1-t2 level. For someone who dont know how do play (or rather knows less than enemy), and gets crushed by Aeon navy, it might seem, that he lost because of destroyers. While in reality navy is much more than only building destroyers.
In perfect micro conditions you can dodge all Aeon destro surface shots. And in real game it is not rare that they miss around 50%. While Sera destros are supposed to hit 100%. So haveing beam weapons on Sera destros is a big advantage on navy, and true, as you said, can be disadvantage on navy-to-land in some conditions. But note also, that Sera croisers can hit far inland, kill plane waves and force navy to move/micro.
Personnally, when fighting someone at my level or stronger, I would prefer beam weapons (that dont miss), because winning navy is usually harder and more important than hitting beaches in most effective way.

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I would like to disagree with this petition. I think their compliment of weapons makes them good in their role, and the TML of their cruisers fulfills the role of shore bombardment nicely.

You must deceive the enemy, sometimes your allies, but you must always deceive yourself!

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It's futile to change unit balance to compensate for map problems. No matter how far you raise the turret there will be maps with steeper or higher hills. It is the responsibility of the mapper to make maps that work with the units in the game. Either they deliberately made a decision to have a shoreline block certain naval units and tested that it works as intended, or they just randomly threw a map together and it is what it is.

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@thomashiatt said in Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly:

It's futile to change unit balance to compensate for map problems. No matter how far you raise the turret there will be maps with steeper or higher hills. It is the responsibility of the mapper to make maps that work with the units in the game. Either they deliberately made a decision to have a shoreline block certain naval units and tested that it works as intended, or they just randomly threw a map together and it is what it is.

Okay the other comments made sense but this one is entirely nonsensical. Some maps have cliffs designed to block offshore bombardment specifically, and some do not. It is also the responsibility of the player to recognize when the terrain favors and disfavors you.

Seraphim destroyers having a higher turret position would only result in you being able to actually use them for this purpose in more situations.

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Some maps do. More specifically, maps tend to be balanced around what mexes frigates can and can't hit via terrain. But sometimes they aren't and you cant really tell in any certain way unless you go and test it out yourself. For example, sentons has a rock mex that can't be hit by a frigate but subs can, except for the Aeon sub which has no deck gun. This was absolutely not an intentional design choice by GPG but just happenstance.

Destroyers I don't really know of very many maps at all where it's reviewed whether certain destroyers can or can't hit inland.

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I think Chosen probably tests for these sorts of things on his maps. The rest of the mappers on FAF are bad and should be banned.

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@thomashiatt said in Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly:

It's futile to change unit balance to compensate for map problems. No matter how far you raise the turret there will be maps with steeper or higher hills. It is the responsibility of the mapper to make maps that work with the units in the game. Either they deliberately made a decision to have a shoreline block certain naval units and tested that it works as intended, or they just randomly threw a map together and it is what it is.

Yes, of course there will always be maps where the turret isn't high enough. But raising the turrett a bit will solve the issue where only a slightly elevated shore will already block the beam.
I don't expect the Sera destroyer to be able to shoot over obstacles as well as the other faction destroyers do, but right now I agree with OP it too quickly hits the ground.
Raising the turret a bit is worth testing imo.

Check out my maps here:

Madness 1 - 9

https://forum.faforever.com/topic/480/h-master-s-maps

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@h-master said in Petition to Raise the Firing Elevation of the Seraphim Destroyer Just Slightly:

Raising the turret a bit is worth testing imo.

Make a mod and convince us that it still looks decent and has the desired impact.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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You know what fuck it where's the how to make your first FAF mod tutorial

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@jip I don’t know how atm. Maybe at a later time. Any resources on how to develop something like that?

Check out my maps here:

Madness 1 - 9

https://forum.faforever.com/topic/480/h-master-s-maps

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@snowy801 Yep seraph destros also tilt me to no end sometimes