I was working from home the day of the patch release, saw it take about 3 hours and not finished, canceled and moved on with my life.
The next day after work, got home, downloaded the patch in like 10 minutes.
I don't think a few days of hectic patch download, coupled with issues is abnormal even for a lot of AAA title games, so expecting a free-service game community do better is a little unrealistic.
Problem isn’t really solved by just saying it’s a patch day problem. I had to spend like 30 minutes downloading stuff to watch fafdevelop replays one day and then the exact next day I had to spend yet another 30 minutes downloading fafdevelop to join a 2v2 lobby. Both of these were before the patch and well before any level of undue stress should have been put on the server.
I’m going to guess that new players downloading coop files also takes up this bandwidth? Because if so that could explain why fafdevelop always takes forever too, but it also means this problem is never really going to stop.
There is no way to break it down into files any further, so that would be guesswork.
Yet again waiting 30 minutes is not acceptable? How did I survive the 00s with only ISDN (64kb/s max) and paying per minute? A 5mb patch took 1.5 hours and cost me around 2€.
"Nerds have a really complicated relationship with change: Change is awesome when WE'RE the ones doing it. As soon as change is coming from outside of us it becomes untrustworthy and it threatens what we think of is the familiar."
– Benno Rice
It really isn’t, I could download and play Witcher 3 faster. If I treated FAF like any random game I would have uninstalled it and probably came back somewhere in the next 6 months once the 2nd 30 minute download happened because I’d think this was a constant occurrence.
If it’s going to be like this then you might as well as automatically turn on file caching for players.
We already do offer caching for files. Develop just changes enough that it needs to be redownloaded.
Yes, but it isn’t enabled by default. If this is going to keep being a problem I’m saying you might as well as enable it and if people have a memory problem they can disable it instead. People might grudgingly tolerate the first mega slow download but it consistently happening might just make them decide to stop bothering with the client.
The caching is only useful if you go back and watch old replays. For most players this is never any issue. The download happens when a patch is released and then it is over.
It is a much bigger issue to consume all the memory with the cached files as people may have limited space on their C: drives.
Is it not useful for joining/watching FAFdevelop games and then having to join/watch normal games and then potentially going back to FAFdevelop? I mean it isn’t like tons of FAFdevelop lobbies are up, I guess.
@sheikah said in What should be done to address FAF patch download issues?:
The caching is only useful if you go back and watch old replays. For most players this is never any issue. The download happens when a patch is released and then it is over.
It is a much bigger issue to consume all the memory with the cached files as people may have limited space on their
C:drives.
I thought we added a file (size) limit and that it is on by default. We should really do that as it seems stable.
"Nerds have a really complicated relationship with change: Change is awesome when WE'RE the ones doing it. As soon as change is coming from outside of us it becomes untrustworthy and it threatens what we think of is the familiar."
– Benno Rice
I think this issue is actually quite a large problem. I somewhat regularly get PMs from users with (allegedly) fast internet that are running into extremely slow downloads trying to download coop/mods outside of patching periods. I have no idea how often this is actually due to the server's bandwidth being saturated, but I suspect it is somewhat often. Considering that the percentage of people who will message a mod (and me specifically) about an issue is typically an extraordinarily small percentage of people who experience this issue, this problem may be widespread outside of patching periods. (Someone with server analytic access can tell me if I'm totally off base if the bandwidth actually isn't saturated outside of patching periods)
We should also strive to provide the best user experience possible during patching periods. Creating a 1-2 day window where FAF is basically unusable for users outside of Europe every few months should be avoided if possible. We should not expect the average user to use some random mirror that no one knows about. If players can't play FAF, they go somewhere else and they might not come back. If we have someone willing to set up a CDN that costs $400/month to avoid this issue, we should do it, we can afford it. Will it eat into the the tournament budget? Yes, but ensuring the best possible UX is most important.
@brutus5000 said in What should be done to address FAF patch download issues?:
@sheikah said in What should be done to address FAF patch download issues?:
The caching is only useful if you go back and watch old replays. For most players this is never any issue. The download happens when a patch is released and then it is over.
It is a much bigger issue to consume all the memory with the cached files as people may have limited space on their
C:drives.I thought we added a file (size) limit and that it is on by default. We should really do that as it seems stable.
I am not aware of any file size limit. Right now there is just an option for users to specify how long the cache exists for.
I agree with Skwoll, for die hard fans of FAF it might not be that big of a problem. But for newer or more casual players this might be something that is really off putting, even more that it doesn't happen only on patch periods.
I myself while not suffering as hard as others still get mildly annoyed when I have to spend 5-10 minutes downloading older patches just to download the current one in about half an hour later, and that's not even on the patch days. Considering that some might even spend 10 times the amount of time downloading few rather small files seems like something that we should look into.
I feel lucky as my patch downloads usually take 10-15 seconds. Also at the same time when many others experience download issues on several occasions, making me believe we are not saturating the server bandwidth but rather networks/ISP's along the way have routing issues or are throttling traffic.
I'm always able to download the patch instantly while other people have been having the issue for several days in a row, so it seems to be more complex than just bandwidth. I also live in the US.
Yeah I can count on one hand the number of times I've had issues downloading patches or maps and none of those occurrences were recent. I am also US based. I am also wondering if what Gieb said is a part of the issue, I remember when myself and other burgers stuck with Comcast as their ISP basically couldn't play FAF without awful lag for a month or whatever it was.
Edit: Also I completely agree with Swkoll. Sure I'm not going anywhere if I can't download a patch for a day or two, but that's not the case with new people.
Having a CDN could fix other non-saturation based issues as (insert random ISP) is less likely to have issues communicating with the nearest cloudflare server than a single dedicated server in germany.
Well we had the same problem with Github downloads which has a worldwide CDN, so I'm still not sure if CDN can actually fix it.
So apart from just throwing money at some company, how would we measure that we actually improved the situation?
"Nerds have a really complicated relationship with change: Change is awesome when WE'RE the ones doing it. As soon as change is coming from outside of us it becomes untrustworthy and it threatens what we think of is the familiar."
– Benno Rice
Isn’t that just a feature of github though? They don’t want to be used as a free CDN so they’re going to throttle download speeds. It just makes sense.
I think the biggest bottleneck is once again manpower. We don’t really have the free time to figure out how to set up a cdn, and how much it would cost, and how it would integrate into our stack.
If I had infinite time and money I’d love to do the following:
Sadly my money and time are only finite and already allocated to many FAF projects like TMM.
@brutus5000 said in What should be done to address FAF patch download issues?:
Well we had the same problem with Github downloads which has a worldwide CDN, so I'm still not sure if CDN can actually fix it.
So apart from just throwing money at some company, how would we measure that we actually improved the situation?
Perhaps we could get data on download times and look at averages/medians/etc?
pfp credit to gieb
