Real shard buff: Hover Ship

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What about making the shard a hover ship? - with balanced over-land speed obviously

As it stands frigates are the dominant military ship, so making the shards hover does not protect them against their "natural enemy". However it renders them immune to submarines mixed into a fleet slightly reducing their damage taken.

Importantly, it makes them immune to torpedo bombers. This makes them a much safer T1 AA choice because the dominant air-to-navy attack option is useless against them, this allows for a more aggressive transition to T2 navy - ie not starting with a cruiser if there is an air threat.

Aeon also depends more on air control to protect aurora, this augments Aeons ability to perform amphibious warfare at T1 by using Shards instead of MAA. With T1 amphibious warfare boosted, Aeon can stop complaining about weak frigates.

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Thats kind of a crazy ideia, considering there's only one land capable ship in the game. But i like it! The actual visual design of the Shard would need to be changed as well, but i dont think that would be a big problem

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@soulgamer31br said in Real shard buff: Hover Ship:

Thats kind of a crazy ideia, considering there's only one land capable ship in the game. But i like it! The actual visual design of the Shard would need to be changed as well, but i dont think that would be a big problem

If that is the only problem I would ask how much it would cost.

But if any faction should get a hover ship then Aeon fits best.

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@valki said in Real shard buff: Hover Ship:

If that is the only problem I would ask how much it would cost.
But if any faction should get a hover ship then Aeon fits best.

You mean, as how much it would cost to redesign the unit, or how much the new shard would cost in order to be balanced? Im not sure of either, but like i said, i dont think it would be much of a problem.

And yeah, Aeon is the best faction to get a hover ship considering their whole theme

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@soulgamer31br The cost to redesign the 3D model.

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@valki im not really sure how much it would cost (assuming someone doesnt just do it for free as a volunteer), but i dont imagine it would be expensive, specially because you would just need to alter the design instead of making a new one. All you really need to do is change the bottom part of the ship so it becomes a hover

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https://faforever.github.io/spooky-db/#/UAS0102,UAL0104
Compare this and think why is it bad idea, even more so why is it a bad idea in case of aeon land forces.
Also compare bomb drop of points and other stuff. You might then realize why is it such a bad idea.

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@randomwheelchair what is the problem?

  • land speed would need to be balanced I said, let's make it equal so I can ignore it for now
  • Shards have 6.6 hp per mass vs 4.4 hp per mass thistle
  • Thistle has 0.44 dps per mass, shard has 0.25 dps per mass
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Great.
Now what is the range and how many bombers do you need to one pass single MAA and how many to one pass single Shard?
Also what is the relation between high range units and killing low HP targets?

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@randomwheelchair said in Real shard buff: Hover Ship:

Great.
Now what is the range and how many bombers do you need to one pass single MAA and how many to one pass single Shard?
Also what is the relation between high range units and killing low HP targets?

You forgot one: https://faforever.github.io/spooky-db/#/UAL0104,UAB2104,UAS0102

Compared to T1 static AA shards are 20% cheaper, get 4 more range (whoop de doo) and have the same HP, but have less than half the DPS.

As long as Shards are slow as balls over land (like Salems) then I don't think it'd be a problem.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm hesitant because it gives Aeon all of the following:

  • Torpedo immune AA at T1 navy
  • A T1.5 MAA for land
  • A T1.5 land scout with 32 vision range (Aurora firing range is 26)
  • AA that is able to escort Auroras across water at T1
  • Probably some other shenanigans

Some of these are pretty major. The more things a single change affects the harder it is to balance.

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I'm all for trying new things on navy. Perhaps we can make some test mods and try these things out. I won 2nd place in the unit design competition last year, my beautiful Shaman mk 1 losing to a CLEARLY INFERIOR cybran "yet another attack bot" and I'm not salty at all... Because made it in 24 hours. Anyway, I can modify the ships easily and have been studying naval history and theory to hopefully make my own naval RTS games.
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/367/unit-creation-tourney-1-october-of-2020/48?_=1631845412867

Amyway, presuming we are only altering the one unit I would say the shard should stay at sea. The Aeon theory is kinda laser focus on one aspect or strength, requiring further thought into platoon composition and balance, or something like that, IDK.

In my mind, a unit that performs well enough to be a viable AA component into T2 or maybe even 3, would be ideal. My pet idea to make this so is changing their weapon to an instant travel laser, with a bit of flak. Instant travel means it can. Hit all tiers of units, a bit of flak means it's a bit more useful for a bit longer. That might make it too good though, depending on the numbers. I do think that this could make it a suitable supplement to cruisers as well.

Though in my mind if I were redoing the whole thing the thing called "Attack Boat" (The shard), would be some sort of viable attack unit. Low HP attacker or something. With the frigate having the AA, and a 4th new ship filling the role of a "Monitor" with a shore bombardment role in T1, which I presume is what the 2 extra range on the Aeon frigate was meant for.

Anyway, I love the naval part of the game. Hate to see a 3d model and whole unit go underused.

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Not really about the design more the notion of having a giant 800 hp block that doesnt die to t1 bombers easily and also can have auroras hide behind it.

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Aeon more often relies on interceptors than MAA. The question is if this would change signify on maps with somr water.

I don't worry about real naval maps. Having a real amphibious option compensates for a weak frigate. But is it a problem on land maps with a few pools?

Lowering their overland speed below thistle and aurora speed could provide a fair trade off.

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@keyser the speed seems a bit unrealistic, unless it hovers and is basically a low flying aeroplane 😇

You did catch the part where the overland speed should be reduced?

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Not sure about the not so subtle change of speed that it would require though