Time to become more friendly to new people as a game

Lunyshko

Imo we need to remake ez and/or medium difficulties in coop more friendlier to new people. And how about making s tutorial misson just like that one that was with gyle voice acting and be adcertised in the client as a proper titorial.

*Special note for the ones to say that they have no time to deal with this. I will do it myself. This thread was created to get a approval for me to start working.

ZLO

maybe naming difficulty levels to be comparable to vanilla difficulty levels would be ok, afaik easy is still harder than vanilla "hard" is it? i am not sure, i have nor played much coop at all.

Lunyshko

@zlo coop is a good tool to introduce newbs tp a game yet this tool is not in at least decent shape. Coop as it is now only for top 10% players. I find this frustrating as i see newbs trying to finish missons but yet they dont know what reclaim is. Coop requires quite the amout of knowledge even on easy, and ofc newbs cant handle it without almighty friend who can speedrun it with 20 mins

Rowey

this would be nice to be able to convay what the Hq is ect as alot of new player comming from steam wont under stand this mechanic. im all for this and can try lending a hand in some way

arma473

Would an explainer video be a good way to teach people these concepts? For example, put in a strong player to play the Aeon campaign #2, and just explain EEEEVVERYTHING he's doing, including things like taking reclaim. And intentionally be slow about giving orders, don't try to have epic APM. Move at a glacial pace so the viewers can understand what is happening and so they know high APM is not essential to playing the game. They don't have to play on the hardest difficulty. The point isn't to show off skills or hyper-efficient builds, it's to explain every little detail like reclaim and HQs and why they are making mobile AA. A single video showing the first 10-20 minutes of the campaign mission could convey a lot of info. Best to keep it short rather than showing an entire 30- or 60-minute mission.

This could be in the format of just 1 person talking, or it could be in a question-answer format where there is an interviewer asking the player what he's doing and why. I like the idea of using Aeon mission 2 for this because it sets up the video to end basically with a challenge: "now you try it" because people like to copy streamers

Lunyshko

@arma473 definetly no. Imagine choosing between unfriendly interface and friendly one. What would you pick? Without even thinking youd prefer friendlier.

Lunyshko

@arma473 Also such video gives you spoilers and boring af.

biass

This is only going to just that: “imo”

Who do you expect to change the coop?
How should they change it exactly?

FAF needs to do a large amount of things, and you only have at least 3 people to do it. You need to bring forward more than just an “imo”

Lunyshko

@biass Fair enough. All i wanted someone in rule and people to say: "yes that is good idea".
And ill be slowly doing. And if you guys did not notice such a simple and important thing then those 3 people are working in a wrong direction.

Uveso

@banani said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:

then those 3 people are working in a wrong direction.

-- This is only my personal opinion! --

Banani, these are the 351 issues we have to solve at he moment:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues

These are the fixes/improvements we have done/planed for the next update:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pulls

Please tell me what PR (pull request/fix) is going in the wrong direction and is less important than CoOp balance.
Also tell me what you think is a 'more' important issue than coop changes.

We can add you coop balance proposal as issue number 352 to github.
Then we can decide the prioriy like bug fix, code optimizing, enhancement or just nice to have.

After this you only need to find someone who knows the coop mission, has time and want to fix it.

Lunyshko

@uveso I am sorry for not answering all the questions you might come with. I can do it myself. I did not come here to whine how you ignore such a big issue, i came here to deal with it. Also, i do think that all those things you work on besides tmm and bugs are less important. Here are my arguments: #1 All of the people i made to play faf and all of the people that were dragged to this game by friends and yt channels have no clue how to play it. #2 All of our existing tutorials may be good but hard to come by in faf so if you want to play youll have to make RESEARCH instead of a tutorial and easy coop difficulty that will make you utilise reclaim and HQ mechanics that are not easy to understand as someone who has never met them. #3 As i already said, coop is a part of a decent content faf can offer besides team games with a lot of toxicity #4 Coop is a good tool to make people learn faf and as a result less discrimination against gray ratings.

Rowey

https://github.com/FAForever/fa-coop & https://github.com/FAForever/faf-tutorials Are going to be the main Repositorys to look at posible for this going forward.

Uveso

@banani

-- again only my opinion --

You mentioned we are maybe working in the wrong direction.
So i asked you for a priority list and where do you want to place the coop change.
Like we have 350 issues, and coop should be solved at place 100

But i got as answer;

people are clueless about the game.
totorials are crap.
coop is a part of the game.
Coop is a good.

How can this help me to make a priority for the coop change ?
(There is no need to convince me that we need this change)

Btw you don't need any approval to make an issue or pull request on Git-Hub.
Just make your changes, upload it (PR) and we will test and likely merge it to the game.

You could/should also talk to speed2CZ, since he made many coop changes.
In case you need help on Git-Hub, ask me.

Resistance

@uveso Banani is not requesting anything,he is mostly gathering opinions about it's implementation,he wants to get the approval or at least some sort of "green light" so it doesn't get ignored or thrown out if he actually is going to make it all alone,which is kindda reasonable considering it's a big project.

Lunyshko

@uveso said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:

Btw you don't need any approval to make an issue or pull request on Git-Hub.
Just make your changes, upload it (PR) and we will test and likely merge it to the game.

You could/should also talk to speed2CZ, since he made many coop changes.
In case you need help on Git-Hub, ask me.

That is all i wanted to hear. An btw i already mentioned few times and in a reply to you that i will make it myself with a few volunteers so there is no need for making a priority for it. Cant you just rate it yourself? I am not familiar with faf development.

Lunyshko

This post is deleted!

Tagada

I am not sure if it's a great idea to change the difficulty of an existing difficulty level for the co op maps that we already have. I think it would be much better to create new difficulty level - beginner and adjust the co op maps accordingly to it. I am not sure if it's possible, would need to ask Speed2.

Rowey

@Uveso you mention that their is 350 issuse on the FA Repo but alot still date back to 2014 and probs alot of the issuse could be closed of.

Lunyshko

@tagada I suspect that in order to make a proper tutorial and coop for newbies, i need to make a new mission to implement all of the ideas. Also easy coop is not exactly for newbies. they are playing it few hours a game which is not good, i plan to make small additional task for example "go reclaim that" or "go kill it with navy". Those tasks can be called tips for newbies. And make a medium difficulty as a place to play with friends regardless of they rating. And leave hard as it is now.

CheeseBerry

Are we talking about the coop version of the campaign missions here?
While I agree that many of the new non-campaign coop missions can be quite tough, I don't remember the default coop missions to be particularly challenging. Am I just misremembering?