Make the "Draw Bug" a Bannable Offense

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@ftxcommando said in Make the "Draw Bug" a Bannable Offense:

There is nothing in the FAF rules that disallows you from ctrl+k'ing on people.

See above, read the whole thread.

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I see Swkoll saying he would theoretically handle reports and Tex and Resistance saying it shouldn't be bannable. I also see no real arguments for how a ban on it would be enforced but a lot of arguments about why it's just a recipe for issues.

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You’re missing some key points, but the regardless it’s a heavily frowned upon act to use intentionally.

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What key points? You can't make something bannable based on if it is done intentionally, because you can't know for sure if somebody is aware of the bug. Also, if you want to punish people for it, it should really be listed in the official rules.

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it won't be listed in the official rules cause it's not bannable,chill

queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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I am. I was just replying to Morax that seemed to be under the impression that it is already forbidden. And it not being listed there convinces me of the opposite.

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@rezy-noob said in Make the "Draw Bug" a Bannable Offense:

it won't be listed in the official rules cause it's not bannable,chill

Purposefully doing it definitely falls under our generic "do not abuse exploits/bugs/loopholes" rule.

E: For clarification, the bug/exploit being that in a draw situation the player who ctrl-k'd gets a "win" even though it should be a "draw".

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I am soo confused at this point

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To clarify, if you ctrl-k your com in a scenario where it makes sense (if the exploit didnt exist) is that considered abuse of an exploit?

Eg your com is about to die and/or lose range of enemy com (with you in a non-winning situation) but enemy com is low enough health that ctrl-k will kill it. Regardless of if the exploit existed ctrl-k is or could reasonably be thought to be the best move. Is that considered abuse of an exploit?

If yes I see that as a serious issue because you’re potentially banning someone for playing the game properly (ie they would play that way whether or not the exploit existed). If it isn’t then I’m confused what scenario would be considered abuse of an exploit.

Another example would be deliberately going for a draw by charging your acu into an acu fight but again that is a legitimate strategy if you don’t think you’ll come out on top long term.

M27AI developer; Devlog and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v20-devlog/41

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Ofcourse ctrl-k'ing your acu in that situation is totally fine and part of the game mechanic. Doing so repeatedly on purpose, aka exploiting the current existing bug, is not ok.

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@noonecares said in Make the "Draw Bug" a Bannable Offense:

I am soo confused at this point

The title of the thread and request is a bit misleading, yes. I will have to write something fresh and lock this thread as it has become quite convoluted.

For starters, a single offense - like any action - should result in a warning rather a ban.

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As far as I can tell from this.
Your moaning about a feature in the game.

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@noonecares said in Make the "Draw Bug" a Bannable Offense:

As far as I can tell from this.
Your moaning about a feature in the game.

It is not a "feature." If you need further explanation of that feel free to contact myself or Giebmasse.

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The scenario is like this:

  • you ctrl-k your ACU, it explodes
  • the explosion damage kills your opponents ACU

Expected game outcome: DRAW
Actual game outcome due to bug: VICTORY for the player who ctrl-k’d

This has nothing to do with game mechanics. It is about a bug in the engine which causes this to be incorrectly reported as a win for you. If we could, we would just fix the bug so the scenario would be rated correctly, but we can’t, mostly because we don’t have the source code and it’s very difficult to debug without that. Thus the only option is to use moderation to prevent people from abusing this to intentionally inflate their rating.

So if you are in the situation where you are about to draw your opponent anyways, you should not be ctrl-k’ing your ACU in order to abuse the bug and get yourself a false win.

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This can lead to a problem though, because sometimes you really are not sure if you are about to draw your opponent. Your opponent could be about to vet, or have a mobile shield on the way, or enough units coming to block your attack.

Is there perhaps some workaround that can be done by modifying the ACU's death weapon? Replace it in lua code with something that adds a flag to the replay file that the server can see when determining who won the game? I'm not very knowledgeable about FAF's inner workings but I know that as long as the server's able to see something that indicates a draw, then it can award the correct points instead of counting it as a win.

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There have been years of time where there was no draw bug and ladder rating worked perfectly. Copy-paste the old code, put it in an if-statement to apply to ladder games, and then it works? Or rollback to two years ago when it worked and ban all the developers so it stays that way.

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Am I gonna have to copy/paste a link to Brutus’ post on the subject for you Thomas?

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Aging software has no relevance to the rating bug and is largely fake news as proven by the 14-year-old game that still works perfectly despite the fact you cannot modify its source code.

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I think this topic has served its purpose and should be closed.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned