Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?

@morax said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

MapGen has its limits and after awhile you will see patterns that lead to the same build orders and "meta" of human-made maps.

As far as visuals go, map gen is really dull and makes the experience just that...

I pretty much don't play team games anymore because it's all map gen so please do not do this to 1v1.

I agree visuals are superior in hand crafted maps. But there is just so much depth that goes into mastering a map.

I was watching the last tournament live stream. At one point the commentator mentions "Most people don't know, but these particular trees next to the base are super rich in mass, if you don't harvest them at the start you are at a major disadvantage". I think this perfectly illustrates the problem.

If you love memorizing stuff and perfecting a map then great. If you don't (like me) 1v1 current ladder is a pain.

When the starting position is truly equal - then the only differentiating factor is skill. Mapgen.

@ftxcommando said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

map veto has been "in progress" for about 8 years at this point, so we can guess and say we are about halfway there in dev time

lol.

What is the bottleneck? Developer availability?

The original gpgnet client had veto and preference.

It's more like nuclear fusion. Map veto is constantly six months away.
The bottleneck is developer availability. A concept exists how map veto should work, but somebody has to implement it. If somebody wants to try, I can provide guidance.
The only real requirement is that you have some (any) sort of programming experience

@blackyps said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

It's more like nuclear fusion. Map veto is constantly six months away.
The bottleneck is developer availability. A concept exists how map veto should work, but somebody has to implement it. If somebody wants to try, I can provide guidance.
The only real requirement is that you have some (any) sort of programming experience

I could probably have a crack at it. Is it on github?

@dgun the stacked tree reclaim is a general-game knowledge rather than a certain map. Even in map-gen you have to learn to recognize certain reclaim types.

@morax there are maps with reclaim types that don't get generated and are very specific to the map.
In the last invitational there was a map (I think that's the one dgun also meant) that had tree groups, where the single trees were worth like 5 mass each. That's something you'll never see in mapgen and I think you couldn't even see the tree reclaim on ctrl+shift

@dgun said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

I could probably have a crack at it. Is it on github?

Yes, all the software that needs changing is available on github. This is the concept the matchmaker team wrote. Let me know if you are interested in doing this.
The first step would be that we plan together how it would work on a technical level.
FAF_Map_Vetoes-2.pdf

Well, I'm probably not gonna be loved for this opinion but...
Lets go one step further, and bring on Mapgen Unexplored....

Unexplored is only really possible with mapgen, but it's a great 1v1 format. Like really fun, it's totally underrated.... Lets do it...

No, unexplored is unplayable in 20x20 due to how vision works in the game. Entirely possible for a chunk to be explored on your map but you didn’t fly in the correct spot so you didn’t see a mex spot that suddenly pops in.

@nex said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

@morax there are maps with reclaim types that don't get generated and are very specific to the map.
In the last invitational there was a map (I think that's the one dgun also meant) that had tree groups, where the single trees were worth like 5 mass each. That's something you'll never see in mapgen and I think you couldn't even see the tree reclaim on ctrl+shift

It sounds like there is more a problem with a certain reclaim type than made maps verse random generated.

Not really sure that justifies making anything random generation only. The single trees are a part of the game and need to be known just like anything else technical. It sounds to me like a slippery slope to start banning entire maps simply because of this.

@morax The problem is that there are premade maps that require different knowledge and even if you remove those, a well thought out BO that accounts for all the specifics of a map will be better than one made up on the spot. Even if you can correctly tell the usefulness of tree reclaim near your base etc.
So as soon as the map to be played is known beforehand, you will need to learn BOs or be at a disadvantage

@nex said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:

@morax The problem is that there are premade maps that require different knowledge and even if you remove those, a well thought out BO that accounts for all the specifics of a map will be better than one made up on the spot. Even if you can correctly tell the usefulness of tree reclaim near your base etc.
So as soon as the map to be played is known beforehand, you will need to learn BOs or be at a disadvantage

Forgive me but why is it a problem that you have to learn how to master a map?

@morax That is the reason some people prefer mapgen over premade maps. So that they don't have to invest time outside of the match they find fun to not be at a disadvantage. For some mastering a map to such degrees is fun, for some it isn't. That's why people plead here for more mapgen in ladder / some option for more mapgen.

No idea how many of the 11k games I have played are map gen, but am guessing there's at least several hundred, and I can assure you that in time you will realize map gen is not all that random. There are without a doubt mastered starts and layouts that can leverage them there as well.

As pointed out this has been trialed before and it did not really show it is favorable.

@blackyps I have cloned the repo and am having a poke around.

Are there any instructions for building for linux?

What repo exactly? Let's move this somewhere else. You can find me on discord and either message me directly or in #development-general on the faf server

noooo my 800 opponent has full mastery of this map ahhhhh its unwinnable

he actually plays 4000 on that one map and 0 on the other 5 maps

@sladownoob its not about winning or not, I just don't enjoy. There is a reason why other rts ranked only use random generated maps - because then it is completely fair.

very good reply time