A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy

@mazornoob said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

I'm pretty sure last time I tested phim destroyer versus 2 sub hunters, it killed both with 30% of its health remaining. It actually did better than Cybran destroyer, which was left at around 25%.

In big numbers phim destro loses massively due to no torp defense while sub hunters have decent defense.

The inability to deal with sub hunter spam is why phim t2 navy can never lose air.

Okay, I stand corrected. Good to know.

Since when Seraphim destros have no torp defence???

don't sera t1 subs lose in 1v1 to any other t1 sub?

@wikingest said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

Since when Seraphim destros have no torp defence???

It has torp defense, it’s just really bad. That’s why it can’t just viably be a sub, the submerging is a defense mechanic against close range swarms of uef destro or frigs.

@zlo said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

don't sera t1 subs lose in 1v1 to any other t1 sub?

Idk about 1v1 but sera sub is the only really viable sub to do Yudi style sub spam gimmicks because of the torp defense. I don’t really think that’s a justification for the unit to stay what it is though since that isn’t really intended gameplay nor is it really any good just funny. A more defensively focused sub would be cool to play around with.

The fact sera has hover engies also means they aren’t insanely destroyed by a lack of early torp options, though it will be a pain to deal with underwater mexes though maps with them suck anyway psycho

@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

no torp defense

Yeah, I thought this was a lie. Sera destroyers surface to have more dps and range. And if they would not surface, Aeon destroyers would hard crush them.

Sera destros were quite good against subs, and I dont remember balance change, that states that one faction on t2 navy needs to solely count on air.

imho sera battleship is the best at ground firing subs thanks to his high rate of fire

@wikingest said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

no torp defense

Yeah, I thought this was a lie. Sera destroyers surface to have more dps and range. And if they would not surface, Aeon destroyers would hard crush them.

Sera destros were quite good against subs, and I dont remember balance change, that states that one faction on t2 navy needs to solely count on air.

They’ve never been good against t2 subs

imo underwater units shouldn't be able to get groundfired by surface weapon

@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

They’ve never been good against t2 subs

Yes they were good, I had similar results as @MazorNoob.

So you also saw they lose in real game numbers not some sandbox 1v1? Great.

So you recognise that you lied once more. And now you pretend, that unit statistics are different in sandbox? And we are supposed to believe it?

Idk what you tested wikingest but Sera destros definitely lose to T2 subs in numbers. Starting at about 4 destros vs 8 subs (mass equivalent) like 3 subs survive the encounter, so it's a quite brutal loss for Sera and it just gets worse at higher numbers. Your hairsplitting just makes you seem dumb and uninformed.

@FemtoZetta Thats exactly what I said. I would recommend to read my comments first. Sera destros used to largely win against subs, and now they are losing. So it must be broken. Or have you seen a balance change that made Sera t2 navy depend entirely from air? Was there a balance decision to make sera destros weaker than subs lately?

Not sure what kind of earlier you talk about, but Sera destros have lost to T2 subs for years.

I dont know, when it started, but at 7 Oct 2022, all destros lost to subs in big quantitys. As I brought out
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/4951/torp-bombers-are-too-strong-vs-subs/8?_=1675259960008
After that it got fixed someday, without much talk. Might have been something about torp defences fireing in opposite direction? So I checked it, and Sera destros did just fine against subs. Probably when @MazorNoob checked also. It was kind of big thing, who would not have noticed it, all destros losing to subs? And those who did the fixing and all. I dont see much to prove here. No need to look for replays, rather how could someone not know?

And so today Sera destros lose against t2 subs in big quantitys again...

@wikingest said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:

I dont know, when it started, but at 7 Oct 2022, all destros lost to subs in big quantitys. As I brought out

that’s not how it ever worked, salem and exodus beat subs uef and phim destro dont.