Matchmaker Algorithm Feedback Thread

And how many 2000 rated players have you talked to for their opinion on 1200s? Because I promise you they view them even worse than how you seem to be viewing 700s. Plenty of 2k players refuse to play lobbies with rating minimums below 1.8k.

It literally makes zero sense for rating disparity and skill difference to not be correlated. To be 200 points above 2000 or 200 requires the exact same level of “skill” beyond 2000 or 200 to consistently beat those levels and maintain your rating. The only difference here is that 200s have higher deviation in general.

"And how many 2000 rated players have you talked to for their opinion on 1200s? Because I promise you they view them even worse than how you seem to be viewing 700s. Plenty of 2k players refuse to play lobbies with rating minimums below 1.8k.Plenty of 2k players refuse to play lobbies with rating minimums below 1.8k."

All the more reason to use a hard limit on skill difference. This has been my main point the entire time. I really don't need to have it parrotted back to me as if I don't understand something.

https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2172/can-we-please-talk-about-tmm-match-making

I was specifically asked what I thought the limits should be and responded.
I was specifically asked to justify my thoughts, I did.

But you don't like my numbers or reasons, FINE. Fix it or don't fix it: I am done here.

@battlemoose said in Matchmaker Algorithm Feedback Thread:

For example, a 500 rating difference from 800 to 1300 represents a much greater level in skill than does 1900 to 2400.

Assuming the same number of games, an 800 has the exact same chance of beating a 1300 as a 1900 has against a 2400.

Honestly @BlackYps that sounds like good work. I've partly given up playing 2v2 due to bad experiences, but will have to try some more.

Slightly off topic: will the 3v3 and 4v4 queues share the 2v2 ratings or use new ratings? I can see why 1v1, 2v2 and global use separate ratings (team communication/coordination being a separate skill, and half of global games being gap/setons/canis), but TMM games are probably similar enough to share ratings?

I’m not 100% up to date on what the plans for ratings are but afaik, 4v4 will definitely have a different rating, and 3v3 will get bundled in with either the 4v4 one or the 2v2 one. There will also be a queue that uses global rating.

Last night's game (https://replay.faforever.com/15370273) showed another issue with the TMM ratings: my opponents were both rated around 580. In reality, one was a much better player than the other; presumably they always played 2v2 together thus always won/lost (rating) together. Perhaps one could call the result "balanced" (1248 + 16 vs 580 + 584), but their ratings still massively misrepresented the players (the better of the two is 985 on 1v1 and 1100 on global, the other ~500 on global).

People having inaccurate ratings is a problem that the matchmaker can't do anything about.
For specific players it should go away over time when they play more.

@cyborg16 I thought this too... After being initialized at the wrong rating and then playing always with the same friend I feared I was still massively overrated. I am 1100 he was 600

Somehow though, my winrate is pretty close to 50% when queuing up solo. Apparently I really am as good in 2v2 as my rating suggest (now at least).

my opponents were both rated around 580. In reality, one was a much better player than the other; presumably they always played 2v2 together thus always won/lost (rating) together

Yeah no rating system in the world can really fix that (if they indeed always play together), unless it measures other things than win/loss, which would open the door to people trying to game the rating system (potentially grieving their teammates to gain points) instead of trying to win.

Inaccuracy is built into prebuilt teams. If we wanted a perfect system you would prohibit premade teams, but that’s a less fun experience for lots of people.

The server update on Friday fixed the bugs I mentioned earlier in the thread. So from now on you shouldn't see games with extreme imbalances anymore.

Just got 2vs1 TMM game


15626927-Eternal-.rar
15626927-GingerbreadMan.rar

Is there anything being done further in regards to the map chosen is biased towards maps on the lower rating player’s pool?

@Morax I asked you about this before making the last server release. You told me to leave it as is.

Yep, and I’m asking if anything is being done about it now.

Because you said to leave it as is, I guess the answer is no?? Do you want us to do something about it?

Not what happened, but per our zulip convo we figured it out ...

I wouldn’t call that “figuring it out”. I would say we deferred the conversation to a different medium, in which hopefully things can be communicated in a way that don’t just make everyone confused…