Hate hate
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I appreciate you can have your own thoughts on this but for you to shit on me for wanting to take such a strong stance is confusing to me.
I'm not "shitting" on you. You just suggest that an online game take these things more seriously than one of the most politically correct organisations in the world. It is absolutely baffling and makes no sense.
Savagely punishing those who act with savage hate should be a no brainer.
You propose disproportionate punishments. They commit quite minor offences and deserve every chance to learn that that is not what we do here at FAF before they face consequences more severe than a court of law ever would give them. A lifetime sentence for two uses of a word...?
The current system exist yes but I don't think it is enough for this specific issue.
Why else would you want to defend such actionsThese actions are already against the rules. And this is precisely what I meant when I said political correctness is a drain to even hear about. All this energy I have wasted when the rules already deal with the issue. The issue here was that you didn't know about the moderation / reporting options. Now that you do you can employ them.
I will continue to report all infractions of this nature that I see
Good. I appreciate that. Nobody wants this stuff, we just don't want to lifetime ban people who will most likely stop doing it with a warning. It's unfair and it's inhumane.
but I will never have empathy for people who act this way and am shocked you would make such a suggestion.
Your claim to supporting human rights is a facade when you abandon the most basic empathy and don't even attempt to understand your fellow human beings. You desire control. This has nothing to do with 'human rights'.
I give up, just delete this post. I got my answer on where FAF stands on this issue......
@BlackYps
W-what? How did you arrive at that conclusion?They appear to be radicalised and so any criticism at all results in an outburst. The politically correct have learned that this kind of pressure they place people under can work in the real world sometimes and they can gain control of their fellow humans.
To be clear, I support you reporting this stuff and I support the current rules. The moderation team do an excellent job. I hope you keep playing the game and participating in the community. My worry is that you're so radicalised or programmed to react this way that you'd rather leave if we don't permaban people for a mere two infractions. Now that is a shame.
Former Board Member - March 2021 - March 2022
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@ftxcommando fags....the word was fags.....
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@furyritchie clearly you will never get it. Saying it's a minor offense for using just a word is ridiculous. Calling people a nigger over and over or making a lobby called no niggers....that's minor to you then obviously racism isn't that big of a deal to you(but now I am toxic for pointing this out even though you have clearly made it known where you stand on the issue lol). Labeling me a political activist for wanting decent human behavior is also ridiculous. I have never voted in my life FYI. Telling me I'm taking offense after you clearly attacked me?.....like I said, I give up. there is no reasoning with people like you.....there just isn't. so go and do as you please but don't pretend to know me or have me figured out. I had an idea to try and prevent hate speech in the community because I am sick of seeing it and what a horrible idea it obviously was because they are just words right.....you twist everything I say so I just won't say anything. I give an example of punishment and you call me a savage....like I said.....no point. carry on
I understand FAF better than I can play it
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because obviously everybody is happy with the way things are so that's why I give up....simple....
So you choose to ignore this?
For this to be as productive as possible:
https://www.faforever.com/rulesExplain what segment of the rules should be changed and what it should be changed to.
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@blackyps yes I chose to ignore it because I never said there was anything wrong with the rules.I was suggesting we do more like.....wait......ill just be repeating myself and we all know how my posts when over the first time......the end!
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@tsirkitna said in Hate hate:
@furyritchie clearly you will never get it. Saying it's a minor offense for using just a word is ridiculous. Calling people a n***** over and over or making a lobby called no n******
This really is my point. This is against the rules. People can get banned for it if they do it "over and over". These are the current rules and moderation policies already.
Labeling me a political activist for wanting decent human behavior is also ridiculous.
You want people to have lifetime bans from a game they paid for without giving them a chance to correct those actions. What else could you be than an activist?
Telling me I'm taking offense after you clearly attacked me?
I'm not attacking you. I'm telling you that what you propose is extreme. You are emotionally invested in this idea of yours to the point that criticism of it is taken personally. Take a step back. You're welcome here I just want you to use empathy to realise that other human beings deserve to be treated with compassion not hate. You oppose hate with hate. All I ask is that you consider opposing it with empathy.
If you do end up reporting more of these games many people will appreciate it. Myself included as nobody wants to see it on their screen during a stream etc.
Former Board Member - March 2021 - March 2022
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You heavily implied in your OP that it would be allowed.
Anyway there is no point in discussing this further if you don't want to. -
@furyritchie this is just where we disagree....I don't see why we would want anyone in the community who would use hate speech or why we would have empathy for a racist.....I have never accidentally used racist or homophobic terms because I was angry......but that's just me. I have zero tolerance.....others have different tolerance levels obviously. I'll just stick to the regular reporting system and leave it at that. Problem solved.
I understand FAF better than I can play it
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why we would have empathy for a racist
Do they deserve to die?
Former Board Member - March 2021 - March 2022
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@blackyps I was meaning why is it possible to even make a lobby name like that.....in other words, why is it allowed
I understand FAF better than I can play it
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@furyritchie said in Hate hate:
why we would have empathy for a racist
Do they deserve to die?
really dude.......lets just end this here
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I was meaning why is it possible to even make a lobby name like that.....in other words, why is it allowed
As Giebmasse said:
Some simple blacklist of words is a bit icky, can be easily circumvented and can even promote more childish users to see where the limits are and thus emphasizing the problem.
You invest all this developer effort and it can be circumvented with a few letter changes. The easiest way is for people to report the games.
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Just cuz someone uses a racial slur as the title for their lobby in an online video game doesn’t mean they “are a racist”. That’s just some term people came up with in order to dehumanize other people who they believe are “objectively” worse people. I would not be at all surprised if you told me that the majority of people who do this are kids who don’t know any better. I agree with fury here, such behavior should not be tolerated and we should do everything we can to prevent it from happening, but immediately issuing permabans and implementing naive automated censoring are not healthy for the community.
I made a note for myself about generating automated moderation reports, so you should know that this thread has already accomplished some change; people are not shooting you down and completely ignoring you. I just think it’s sad that your responses have been so toxic, when really everyone here is sympathetic to your goal.
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Automatic filters also have negatives and make it pain to comment on things.
A extremely good example
I'm on a diesel forum, I recommend all diesel engines in the us made 2007 or older use the white power service bottle in every fill up. White power gets deleted, so I have to phase my sentence so white and power are not together. "Use the white bottle power service"
It's better to let people speak and bring the hammer down on the assholes
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Punishing people for thinking or being a certain way will just make them angry and lead them into more radical and echo chamber communities. If you really want to fix the problem you need to convince them that racism and sexual orientation discrimination are wrong and bad. You can try being intolerant and bludgeoning the racism out of them on FAF, and maybe it will lead to less racism on FAF in particular, but it's the lazy way out, and ultimately moves the problem elsewhere and makes it worse. Your attitude that no adult should be tolerant in 2021 is what leads to the extremely divided ideological landscape we have now.
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@tsirkitna said in Hate hate:
why we would have empathy for a racist
Because it's not a clear-cut term. Replace "racist" with "murderer", "arsonist" and such and everyone will agree, because these are obvious bad things. "Racist" can be anything from "discriminating employer" to "edgy teen" or "disagreed with me on Twitter once".
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Even a murderer tho. Like what if I murdered a serial killer or a child abuser because I knew that the legal system was flawed and let them off the hook on a technicality. This is the problem with these blanket terms.
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@Tsirkitna by banning people, you're wasting an opportunity to use FAF as a tool to combat racism in the wider global community. I grew up in a racist household, and a racist community, and was absolutely a racist teenager, and it wasn't until I discovered punk rock music that it was really driven home to me that I would have to change to be involved in that community, because that shit doesn't fly in punk rock. Racism in FAF is irrelevant. Racism in the world is the problem, and FAF can be a tool we use to combat racism by letting users know that if they want to play the game they love, they're gonna have to change, because that shit doesn't fly here. That involves a little bit of patience and tolerance of those who show up here impatient and intolerant, at least a little bit more than you're suggesting.
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I wholeheartedly agree with what @zappazapper said. I think at some point in this thread someone mentioned that often times they're just kids who don't know what they're saying. Permabanning someone like that is an awful idea and is basically how to radicalize 101. I think repeated use of hate speech can and should lead to a permaban eventually, but certainly not in the first or even second or third occurrences depending on the severity.
There are people that I play with who have been banned for short periods of time before and I have seen them change their behavior as a result, at least for a good amount of time. We need to give people chances to change and to moderate their own behavior, not just throw them out immediately.
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I think this thread has served its purpose. Locked.
