Why would you have left FAF?

@khabume
<<am a technically newbie with less than 100 games. I am most likely one of the people you're going to lose in 2 years. If I try to look forward, here's what I see and feel. I mostly play custom games, because that's the first thing that presents itself when you start Downlord's FAF Client, so I've stuck with it. I'm not a huge fan of 1v1. I like Team Games.>>

Also:
<<tech race and units rant>>

Well, the first thing is the cause of the second thing, in big team games everyone goes for the fastest eco -> higher units, at least one player in each team. For better FAF experience go to 2vs2 ladder games, it just gave us so much fresh air where more tactics are avaliable.

Very late reply from me to the original post.

But the reason why I would leave FaF is, that the majority of the player base has a very different taste in maps than me. At almost any given the majority of maps being hosted consists of dual gap, astro etc. This means that it takes longer for a normal map lobby to fill, so longer lobby sim time. When having a full time job and a being married there isn't that much game time to start with.

Luckily, there are more players than there used to be, who like normal maps. So it still makes sense to open FaF.

This has been discussed extensively I assume, but still this is the number one downside of FaF for me.

@H-master said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Very late reply from me to the original post.

But the reason why I would leave FaF is, that the majority of the player base has a very different taste in maps than me. At almost any given the majority of maps being hosted consists of dual gap, astro etc. This means that it takes longer for a normal map lobby to fill, so longer lobby sim time. When having a full time job and a being married there isn't that much game time to start with.

Luckily, there are more players than there used to be, who like normal maps. So it still makes sense to open FaF.

This has been discussed extensively I assume, but still this is the number one downside of FaF for me.

Married + part time + primary caregiver also suffers from the time issue. I would love to have a FAF mod "Action FAF" or something that optimizes the game for much shorter and more reliable playtimes.

Alas, I don't have time to make that

@valki said in Why would you have left FAF?:

@H-master said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Very late reply from me to the original post.

But the reason why I would leave FaF is, that the majority of the player base has a very different taste in maps than me. At almost any given the majority of maps being hosted consists of dual gap, astro etc. This means that it takes longer for a normal map lobby to fill, so longer lobby sim time. When having a full time job and a being married there isn't that much game time to start with.

Luckily, there are more players than there used to be, who like normal maps. So it still makes sense to open FaF.

This has been discussed extensively I assume, but still this is the number one downside of FaF for me.

Married + part time + primary caregiver also suffers from the time issue. I would love to have a FAF mod "Action FAF" or something that optimizes the game for much shorter and more reliable playtimes.

Alas, I don't have time to make that

Haha, what works well, is a mate to play with. For me it's my cousin, a.k.a. C-master. Then the lobby fills faster and you have a much higher chance of having a good game. At least one person on your team who you can rely on.

You could also try TMM together!

I started to play recently, hit slightly above 200 games now.
Things that lean me towards quitting are:
1)no interactive tutorials for build orders and other aspects. AoE2DE for example have pretty good interactive tutorials, much better then FAF. You get comments and instructions while you are doing tutorial rather then "watch and then try to repeat what you just saw". And absolutely no in-game interactive tutorials for late game.
2) toxic community towards new players. It is really hard to find a game when you have 0 rating, at least in NA. Every time I host a game and grey 0 rating player would join in the rest of players would tell me to kick him. This "rating segregation" problem is annoying.
3)Dual gap and astro. I have a feeling that 99% of the games are Dualgap and Astro. Feels like game should have been called SC: Dual gap. And it is hard to compete with someone who played dual gap 100K times.
4)Luck of random maps. This is somewhat related to previous one. It is hard to compete with someone who knows specific build orders.
5)Luck of player base. At least that is a problem for NA. Have to wait full lobby for 30-60 minutes
6) Nobody plays with new content. Srlsy, we have nomads, why nobody play it?

SC have the best RTS mechanics: strategic map, build queue is awesome, physics of unit interaction but some of the above listed drawbacks are in the way

Having tried a few times to get into the pvp of FAF, the main thing I keep running into is players either being very hostile to newer, low rated, and especially grey players, as well as not understanding how the trueskill system works and entirely trusting game quality, resulting in new or grey players having a terrible experience since often if you're lucky enough to get into a game it'll be stacked against you. Another thing is how when you're grey you still impact the ratings of others fully, so players who've got a decent rating will refuse to play ranked games with greys lest they ruin their own rating.

@h-master said in Why would you have left FAF?:

You could also try TMM together!

Yep, the problem of lobby sim and poor map diversity was the primary reason why TMM was built. It’s limited to 2v2 for now but we are still working on expanding it to larger team sizes.

Bit of a late addition to the topic, but am a new player and noticed it. I think how many players stay for 2 years isn't that interesting. What'd be more interesting to me is how many stay for say 50 or 100 games.

As mentioned the lobby can be a fairly hostile place for new players. I'm at about 50 games now and around 900 rating, but still 'grey', which means I still get excluded from a fair amount of games. Now, I understand, because balancing with grey players can be difficult. But it doesn't help new players get into the game, and feels discouraging.

That said, the game is great, and the community is passionate, and a fair amount of resources are available. I find Jagged's stream an excellent resource. And the 1v1 and 2v2 matchmaking are a lot of fun. Also a bit discouraging for the first few games perhaps, but as long as the rating gap isn't tooo large, it can be quite good/educational. And some higher rated players will give you some advice after or during the match, which is awesome.

If greys are such an issue, isn't there a way of "bribing" players with an in-game or out-game reward?

Maybe for each grey player in team each non-grey ACU starts with 1 rank of veterancy - to compensate for potential absence of ACU, or a 1k mass donation to all non-grey players at 8 minute mark. If this is somewhat overpowered, grey players will get lots of games and stop being grey.

Or some commendation, maybe just a spam in #aeolus "Players A, B, C, D and E gracefully accepted and educated a new player in their game" - have an achievement count the number of grey players they played with.

@valki said in Why would you have left FAF?:

If greys are such an issue, isn't there a way of "bribing" players with an in-game or out-game reward?

Maybe for each grey player in team each non-grey ACU starts with 1 rank of veterancy - to compensate for potential absence of ACU, or a 1k mass donation to all non-grey players at 8 minute mark. If this is somewhat overpowered, grey players will get lots of games and stop being grey.

Or some commendation, maybe just a spam in #aeolus "Players A, B, C, D and E gracefully accepted and educated a new player in their game" - have an achievement count the number of grey players they played with.

Giving in-game bonuses would reward smurfing and in general it's very bad for a competitive RTS. People also resent having things taken away from them. Some people would quit as soon as the bonuses ended.

I don't remember having a problem finding games when I was gray. Sure, I couldn't get in to some, but others were available.

Gray players are "rewarded" with losing the gray status if they just play ranked games. In the current system, the right people have the incentives to modify their behavior (the gray players themselves).

What is this? Preschool for baby gamers? Asinine idea.

As much as I think global is dogshit way to differentiate player skill level in our current environment it's still a tool that helps players get somewhat balanced games. There should be no incentive to making games unbalanced.
Another thing is that everyone is able to host their own games or join other all-welcome lobbies so I can't imagine that they are still having trouble in finding games. I somehow didn't have that trouble even when I was at -400 rating and gray so I can't imagine now being much different considering the player base only got bigger.

New players don’t read aeolus. I’ve done surveys to see what areas on FAF have what bias. Anyone interested in clicking a link in aeolus was basically 1500+, to reach new players you either need a FAF server public broadcast message or something like vk.com.

And yes, in game rewards for playing with new players is not an option.

@ftxcommando said in Why would you have left FAF?:

New players don’t read aeolus. I’ve done surveys to see what areas on FAF have what bias. Anyone interested in clicking a link in aeolus was basically 1500+, to reach new players you either need a FAF server public broadcast message or something like vk.com.

It is actually not about them, it is about the other players. Do the players who are in the group that matters most to not rejecting greys care about #aeolus?

I play faf since january this year and posted something here 3 months ago.
I got now to my 1000 ranking with ~ 250 games (i mystified 1000 rank or im more a true 600/700). i realized the first big rank increase came, when i learned t1 spam. Maybe there could be a non - compulsive tutorial series where like 4 vs 4 greys get matched, or against an AI. first mission could be like spam 200 t1 tanks in the first 10 minutes or so. Maybe some Missions that could be won by achieving some stats not beating the opponent. Another mission could be scoop all the mass in setons middle till minute 4 maybe. some things i had to realize to play better (and i dont feel like i am a good player now, but indeed better than 3 months ago): t1 spam, use ACU in field, reclaim like a dustsucker, dont force teching as fast as possible and go full stall, pd creeps....
Lol, dual gap grey matches be like: front player at min 12 walks around with his whole batillion of 8 Pillars, bcs t2 is better than t1, air player builds his 5th t2 factory to spam more crossfires, navy player keeps spamming t1 subs, eco stalling -350 mass.... no cringe here we all had to learn:P
but my point is, maybe there could be missions, that can be won by using standart tactics and clear up misconceptions that come form playing against the ai. Players could start at -200 and get to 0 or 200 by playing these missions. in those emissions the most popular maps could be introduced: (as i observed) Dual Gap, Astro Crater, Setons Clutch, Gap of Rohan, Canis River maybe?

@valki said in Why would you have left FAF?:

It is actually not about them, it is about the other players. Do the players who are in the group that matters most to not rejecting greys care about #aeolus?

High rated players care 0% about who is hosting games for gray players unless they’re doing it to the point of abusing the uncertainty of gray players to boost their rating 400+ points.

Aeolus reaches only high rated players.

@valki this is why Galactic War was so good. It literally bribed players to want newbies, because they were worth TP credits.

but this whole formula could be done so much better. instead of just wanting them on your team and have them do something, you could actually be rewarded for having them do things like outputting tanks at a certain rate and/or upgrading mass points.

Can’t imagine a more frustrating experience than losing a game because you had the misfortune of getting the new player that doesn’t speak English.

Also, tying bonuses to the performance of the worst dude in your game is exactly how you increase in game toxicity.

What about a non-game reward/recognition say every month for the person who plays the most ranked games with <50 game players as host (or alternatively just as host or player)? A cheap way would just be a simple headline in the news section giving the name of the player who achieved this (more effort would e.g. be a custom avatar).
This assumes there'd be some way of easily/automatically tracking this.

Honestly promoting gap maps for new players is the best play. One could be crap and die on them and it's not a big deal, real problem is after 600-700 rating you need to stop playing these as your rating won't fit your real ability.

Okay a "you shall not pass" kind of game, there is typically 25% really not doing anything and 25% doing game winning plays.

@veteranashe said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Honestly promoting gap maps for new players is the best play. One could be crap and die on them and it's not a big deal, real problem is after 600-700 rating you need to stop playing these as your rating won't fit your real ability.

Okay a "you shall not pass" kind of game, there is typically 25% really not doing anything and 25% doing game winning plays.

Instead of complaining about people playing gap, shouldn't there be a "level 2 gap" map that is maybe slightly bigger or slightly more challenging technically?