Proposal: Cybran ACU upgrades
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We all know that hystorically, cybran ACU has always been a meme and while other acus received buffs or had the stats tinkered, cybran ACU has stayed the same. I'm not going to write an essay and attach detailed graphs to further delve into the subject, and will just get short to the point.
I propose 2 middle tier upgrades so the ACU can stay relevant past the t1 stage in the game, which also fit nicely with the cybran theme.
Back slot:
Stealth Field Generator
- Replaces personal stealth with the stealth field
- Radar/sonar stealth field radius 20 (the same as Deceiver)
- ACU HP +1500
- ACU regen +10/s
- Energy drain: -80
- Mass cost: 800 (1150 total)
- Energy cost: 24000 (29000 total)
This upgrade will go after the personal stealth one, hence the total cost there (so its going to be between the stealth and the cloak). I tried to balance it having UEF nano upgrade in mind which has the same base cost, gives 1500 hp and 40/s regen. The cybran one will have weaker regen but stealth field is going to supposedly make up for it with extra utility. I'm not sure about the cost though, paired with the previous upgrade it is roughly 1.5 more, so maybe it will need some adjustments.
Right Arm:
Stun Gun (will need a better name)
- Enhances the main gun (alternatively, fires alongside it with 2/s firerate)
- Every 4th shot now has EMP which disables t1 t2 and t3 units
- Splash: 6
- Duration: 0.5s
- Mass cost: 1400
- Energy cost: 42000
Here's what the radius is going to look like (taken from firebeetle which is also 6):
This is the fun one. Will make the ACU viable against t2 armies and early t3, and reward good micro (especially paired with stealth). This slot has never had any reliable upgrade unlike every other ACU in the game which could untilize all 3 slots. All there is for cybran is lazer which is a meme, and torpedo which is extremely situational on navy maps.
Ofcourse the numbers are not final, need testing and up to debate so the discussion is welcome here. I will have the modders help later to make these changes a mod so I and whoever else can test it and post some replays.
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Yeah, it is about time Cybran ACU stop being useless beyond t1 stage.
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@mozy said in Proposal: Cybran ACU upgrades:
All there is for cybran is lazer which is a meme
it's a good meme tho
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I can get onboard with the mid-tier stealth gen. HP and Regen will keep ACU a little safer on the frontline and the stealth can be nice to help keep flak/hoplites/rhinos safe for some nice kiting. Would also be cool for stealth firebases to spring up if T2 is onboard for silly memes. Would make PD crawl better with their shit PD, and make it easier for fast firebases/hidden TML nonsense in niche scenarios. But mostly its a nice complement to gun. Cybran needs some love ATM and that should help shore up some problems.
I can not get onboard with the gun EMP. That is looking like Chrono all over again. Its a very large AOE zone to have 50% reduced DPS of enemy units. 1 emp lasting 1 second every two seconds from range behind stealth seems horrible to play into. I think the idea is neat, but it would need some serious adjustment. I also think it would be very hard to properly balance without being way OP or completely useless. I would offer counter balance suggestion but I can't think of anything good atm for that without testing.
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Could change the cloak upgrade to be cheaper and provide a temporary cloak that works as an activatable ability with cooldown rather than a permanent cloak that is expensive and useless. Fits in with the hit and run tactics theme for the Cybran ACU.
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Well I pulled the 1s stun out of my ass there tbh. I couldnt find the stats like that for com upgrades anywhere, my initial idea was to make it same as chrono but I only could find the upgrade cost stats. Also the aoe is not that big and you can save your units by running away from it or split and surround the ACU if you have the numbers to end it.
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Give Cybran a gun like the Aeon anti-shield tank instead of chrono
(also would rather give cyb the anti-shield tank in general tbh)
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I hate to say it, but I think FTX is on to something. Giving it absolver-like damage buff would help it with its worst problem. Enemy shield bubbles stacking into Cybran. That's a solid idea.
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Idk, playing cybran I dont like it that much. Sure its great if your opponent is making shields, but when people adjust to it and stop making shields vs cybran then its back to useless upgrades in the slot again.
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Yeah, the point is to break the brutal hp wall that Cybran can’t keep up with. If people think it isn’t worth the hassle of making the wall then it did its job.
Not to mention you could apply the useless upgrade logic to both Aeon and UEF ACU that just got personal shields that could be taking massive damage from Cyb ACU.
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Yeah well, I'm going with the stun gun over shield disruptor anyway. Hopefully dragoon will make the mod as he promised so I can test and adjust it and its up to balance team to decide if its any good or not
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I like all of the ideas. A stealth field for the acu would be quite nice, the stun gun could work nicely too if balanced well, and a shield disruptor attack could also be very nice. I also agree that cybran's cloak is just too expensive and useless and so anything that decreases it's cost to make it viable in some situations would be nice.
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@mozy said in Proposal: Cybran ACU upgrades:
Idk, playing cybran I dont like it that much. Sure its great if your opponent is making shields, but when people adjust to it and stop making shields vs cybran then its back to useless upgrades in the slot again.
FTX is completely correct on this one. If they were going to build shields, it's because they were a good idea, right?? So if you [essentially] take away this option from them, they are worse off, hence, it is not a useless upgrade. Hell, even just the potential of getting the upgrade would be a significant boost by seriously diminishing the expected value of them building any shields before you get the upgrade. So you could expect opponents to build far fewer shields without even having to get the upgrade, and if they do, you can punish them for it by nullifying that investment.
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Yeah just go ahead and propose the stats. Dragun said he would help and make a mod, else I will look into it myself next week when I have time. Can have all the changes there but someone would need to test it too.
Im not saying the idea is shit but its still quite a niche thing. Sera dont have shields at t2 or as an acu upgrade, and upgraded acu is a complete rape machine. Other factions, its kinda the same too, its been an issue fighting their army+com, not an hp wall like ftx is saying. I would only use the shield disruptor vs com shield upgrade. Fighting against mobile shields is pretty situational while stun gives you great proficiency fighting against both shields and armies, which is way more useful overall. Also creates nice diversity that everyone on faf is dying for where cybran would use their acu to fight armies rather than other acus.
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At the very least I think the engineering upgrades should move to the left arm, or a new upgrade could be added to that slot. The upgrades on left arm are very niche.
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I am still not sure if buffing cybran ACU is the right way to fix current balance issues, after all it's supposed to be their weak spot, both ACU and t2 land all ins. Yes, after the mantis nerf cybran is not as dominant on land maps during t1 stage but they still have arguably the best t1 tank in most situations (eg. most land based maps) and good t2 units that work great together with medusas and their stun. The whole idea for cybran gameplay is that you get an advantage during t1 stage, keep it during t2 stage where you try to take away map control from your enemy using previously acquired advantages and quick strikes, preferably with stealth field while avoiding an all out com battle in the middle. You also have corsairs so your t2 air transition is very powerful and is something that enemy ACU needs to very much consider if they are planning on being very agressive and pushing down the middle with ACU + units. The truth is that if you don't feed enemy ACU a lot of vet cybran can stand their ground during t2 stage as long as it : Attacks on the sides, got an advantage during t1 as they should, in the middle get a pd + shield to asssit their ACU. Then you switch to t3 and you have the best t3 mobile arty which absolutely annihilates any t2 army.
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One risk I see in giving cybran a significantly better rambo ACU is the synergy with corsairs. It can lead to situations where the opponent, to stop the cybran ACU+army, has to use his own ACU. After a bit of ACU on ACU fighting there is allways the thread of cybran going full corsair and snipeing the opponent 6-7k hp com, which ironically might become most obnoxious in cyb vs cyb.
Forumpros doing balance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wTcguJZh3A .
When a canis player remembers to build more than 3 units https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hjp8xJHuyA . -
No real idea what would be good stats for a Cybran absolver ACU tbh.
Default Absolver:
Range - 75
Fires - 2 times a second
Does - 1300 damage to shieldsI'd put shield disrupter in the same current upgrade tier as chrono, so around early-mid t2 stage.
So: 1500 mass cost, 50k e cost, 1200 bt costI'm not sure if it's better served as a back or right arm upgrade. If it's on the back it means you remove the stealth + gun + disruptor combo. I feel like having it on the right arm would be alright, gives it more utility as its the least used upgrade arm for Cybran and stealth isn't such a huge advantage that you cannot allow the ACU to keep the combo.
Then I'd say the gun itself should do:
Range - 35
Fires - 1 time a second
Does - 1500 damage to shieldsMainly chose 35 as I don't really see why it should have less range than something like an Aeon ACU with chrono. The gun itself doesn't actually directly harm units so it can't really be abused for more damage. This also allows Cybran to put damage on either Aeon ACU or shields directly near it.
Damage I don't know, just chose round numbers that didn't seem too OP 4head
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@ftxcommando How can you hate on my idea to change Aeon ACU upgrades but then love this idea?!
At any rate, I find the OP to be interesting, and I agree with adding some mid-level buffs to the Cybran ACU. The ideas presented are not bad, honestly.
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What are we going to take away from Cybran to balance out having a strong ACU in mid-game?
We could remove Corsairs.
Or we could give mobile stealth field generators to the other 3 factions.
