The End of FAF

Jip

@Jip Those stats do not tell the full picture, please provide answers/data for the following to show a clearer picture.
*Are lobbies actually games that are launched or just lobbies that were opened regardless of launching or not?

Lobbies that opened, I don't think there was a requirement for game duration or whether it launched.

*How do you account for games that were short and needed rehosting because someone crashed as games of their own.

This current data does not do that, but I posted it to show the trend and not necessarily the absolute counts. Note that in 2022 we had no infra

*How many minutes was the average lobby/game? This may be a better gage for actual activity when multiplied by the number of games.

I don't have those numbers.

*Are all the 1 player "testing" games developers like yourself create in the replay vault counted as games in this statistic?

They probably are, yes - but given we're talking about more than a million lobbies* they are not really relevant in my opinion. Let alone that I don't test via FAF, but locally and is therefore not in the database.

*What is the ratio of how many accounts were created since the Steam link requirement relative to the current daily unique users?

I don't have those numbers.

I also do not see why the steam link requirement is relevant to the discussion.

Ganima

EDIT: This was off-topic to be honest. Ignore please.

maudlin27

So to summarise,
You think FAF is dying (2023 saw the second largest number of games played, in spite of DDOS attacks)

Your ’solutions’ to this problem are:
-Anyone should be able to force a game to end against the wishes of all other players [Edit: if they are high rated]
-People should be allowed to insult and use certain offensive terms
-Names should be changeable monthly instead of every 6 months
-only high rated players with 5 years of activity and 1.5k games should be considered for mods
[Edit-additional point I missed: High level and senior players should be allowed to ignore FAF rules except in the most extreme cases eg exploits)]

Suggestions which I think would lead to many people leaving and difficulty retaining new players. In other words achieving the opposite of what you claim you want.

Why do I think it achieves the opposite? Well in addition to it being common sense (ie that encouraging a toxic environment where you can get insulted and have the game ruined by other players with this both being permitted and there being almost no mods even if it wasn’t permitted will prevent more people having fun than the few people who enjoy such an experience), many people also cited toxic behaviour as a key reason for leaving or considering leaving:

https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1100/why-would-you-have-left-faf?_=1717853309510

Also while we have you saying FAF is dying because (amongst other reasons) the mods have cracked down on insults, we have the most active thread on the Supcom steam discussion pages prompted by someone saying people should stay away from FAF because (amongst other reasons) the mods do nothing about insults.

waffelzNoob

@maudlin27 said in The End of FAF:

So to summarise,
You think FAF is dying (2023 saw the second largest number of games played, in spite of DDOS attacks)

Isn't it because of DDOS attacks? Not sure if 2-minute games are counted as games, but even then rehosts were required much more frequently during that period, artificially increasing the game count

TheWreck

@maudlin27 do not reword what i wrote. I said that high level players do not care about base ctrl k.i said higher level players do not care about the use of these words.this was an extremely dishonest response to what I wrote.

maudlin27

@thewheelienoob It’s possible but you’d expect a dramatic fall in 2024 if that were the case. However figures jip posted in discord with the data to early june (so 43% of the time period) had 43% as many games for FAF standard games. In other words, assuming no significant seasonal effect that boosts numbers in Jan-May vs Jun-Dec, game numbers remained relatively stable.

Evildrew

@nuggets said in The End of FAF:

@evildrew said in The End of FAF:

Lets be real here, the reason people are distracted with renaming limits and other trivial nonsense is they have nothing else to do. They are frustrated that they cant get enough games especially at the higher level (so it is claimed).Therefore they are looking for somewhere to vent that dissatisfaction.

Who needs to read more than that to know he has no clue what he is talking about.
I honestly can't be bothered to write full reply because i have no doubt that you will not understand anything about the current situation.

I think the moderation team made a fair argument as to why name changes should be less frequent. If you need something to attack to vent your anger at you should look elsewhere.

Can you please elaborate what the fair argument is? Making the life easier of moderation and (even if in some world you claim this to be trivial) reducing the freedom of players (which was not harmful) is not an argument on any level.

So you are under the delusion to think you have a right to change your username on a database you do not own but willingly registered yourself to at any time and that the entity offering you the service under its terms of service cannot change the terms of service even though it is stated in them that they can.
You can ask to be removed, that right is granted to you under GDPR but no where is it mentioned that you have a right to change your username.

You made a real fool out of yourself by grandstanding, saying I have no clue what I am talking about. Maybe try being more lowkey when adults are speaking.

I suggest the mod team should let you change your username in return for paying $25 like on PlanetSide 2. I highly recommend they do that, then you have what you want and they know you will not be changing your name every week, easy.

TheWreck

The most clown take ever. Bro is completely unaware no one had any issues with frequent name changes for over 10 years.

Evildrew

@thewreck said in The End of FAF:

The most clown take ever. Bro is completely unaware no one had any issues with frequent name changes for over 10 years.

No one? How do you know this to be true, you just state that like it is fact but you got no proof and even a 7 year old could see how stupid it is for you to claim you know what everyone thought...

maudlin27

@thewreck said in The End of FAF:

@maudlin27 do not reword what i wrote. I said that high level players do not care about base ctrl k.i said higher level players do not care about the use of these words.this was an extremely dishonest response to what I wrote.

I thought you were arguing base ctrlk should be fine; re-reading though I agree I misread it as it seems you’re just saying it should be fine for higher rated players only and are against removing the rule altogether, so I’ve edited my summation accordingly.

I can’t see where you say only high rated players should be allowed to use insults like retard and nazi though; you complain about mods taking action against their usage and say the community should be able to enforce this on their own. Later on in your post in a separate heading you talk about how FAF rules shouldn’t apply to high level and senior (presumably including high rated) players with lots of games bar some exceptions, but I read this to mean bans for most rule breaches not just bans for insults. I missed this point in my summation though so will also add

TheWreck

While I do think those words should be universally allowed I am not aware of anyone in the high level community or in the medium rank community that takes issue with it.

TheWreck

@Evildrew i have actually talked with a lot of players before I wrote this. And I know because I have been here for years and no one ever took issue with it and this is a sentiment shared by the half dozen players I have spoken with and they have also been here for many years.

Nuggets

@evildrew said in The End of FAF:

So you are under the delusion to think you have a right to change your username on a database you do not own but willingly registered yourself to at any time and that the entity offering you the service under its terms of service cannot change the terms of service even though it is stated in them that they can.

Clearly your dillusion is bigger than i expected.

Yes, as the rename feature exists (since the beginning?), which is a normal feature to have in ANY online community, i do expect my right to rename to exist.
Even talking about ownership is absolutly insane. Just because i do now own something, does not mean i can't be expected to interact with it how the community wishes. Yes, i know "the community" is a term a single person can't really use, but unless one has lost all common sense, i believe everyone knows that a rename feature is a good and expected feature.

You can ask to be removed, that right is granted to you under GDPR but no where is it mentioned that you have a right to change your username.

You made a real fool out of yourself by grandstanding, saying I have no clue what I am talking about. Maybe try being more lowkey when adults are speaking.

Wow, got me there! Just claiming the fact that my opinion is childish is the worst argument ever. Its the last thing to say when you can't think of a counter.
I said that you do not know what you are talking about, because you legitimatly do now know why it has come to the descision the other high ranks have made (talking about the posts, leaving faf and so on..). You just said "to vent dissatisfaction". Typical take to "say something bad -> you are just flaming, no complaints allowed"

I suggest the mod team should let you change your username in return for paying $25 like on PlanetSide 2. I highly recommend they do that, then you have what you want and they know you will not be changing your name every week, easy.

I know (or also hope) you wrote this in jest. As comparing a company that stands behind planetside 2 to faf is just not possible (do i need to mention common sense?).

You still did not post an actual argument why the moderator descision is legitimate.
If you are saying "they own it, they can do whatever they want"; you are first of all, not even completly correct, and second of all, imagine how ANY company / online community would crash if they do not react to feedback.

Nuggets

@evildrew said in The End of FAF:

@thewreck said in The End of FAF:

The most clown take ever. Bro is completely unaware no one had any issues with frequent name changes for over 10 years.

No one? How do you know this to be true, you just state that like it is fact but you got no proof and even a 7 year old could see how stupid it is for you to claim you know what everyone thought...

I like how you claim that Wreck has no idea, meanwhile we have actually asked moderators for this information, and the lack of response kind of says it all.
Also, are you saying you know more than us on this?

Evildrew

@thewreck wow 6 people. That’s a massive sample size. Stellar! They should have co-signed then…
So what about the argument then, since we can just proclaim to have rights that are not enumerated anywhere, that if other players know who I am, I should have the right to know who they are, because knowing someones play style gives you an advantage…

TheWreck

No you don't have that right

Evildrew

@nuggets said in The End of FAF:

@evildrew said in The End of FAF:

So you are under the delusion to think you have a right to change your username on a database you do not own but willingly registered yourself to at any time and that the entity offering you the service under its terms of service cannot change the terms of service even though it is stated in them that they can.

Clearly your dillusion is bigger than i expected.

Yes, as the rename feature exists (since the beginning?), which is a normal feature to have in ANY online community, i do expect my right to rename to exist.
Even talking about ownership is absolutly insane. Just because i do now own something, does not mean i can't be expected to interact with it how the community wishes. Yes, i know "the community" is a term a single person can't really use, but unless one has lost all common sense, i believe everyone knows that a rename feature is a good and expected feature.

You can ask to be removed, that right is granted to you under GDPR but no where is it mentioned that you have a right to change your username.

You made a real fool out of yourself by grandstanding, saying I have no clue what I am talking about. Maybe try being more lowkey when adults are speaking.

Wow, got me there! Just claiming the fact that my opinion is childish is the worst argument ever. Its the last thing to say when you can't think of a counter.
I said that you do not know what you are talking about, because you legitimatly do now know why it has come to the descision the other high ranks have made (talking about the posts, leaving faf and so on..). You just said "to vent dissatisfaction". Typical take to "say something bad -> you are just flaming, no complaints allowed"

I suggest the mod team should let you change your username in return for paying $25 like on PlanetSide 2. I highly recommend they do that, then you have what you want and they know you will not be changing your name every week, easy.

I know (or also hope) you wrote this in jest. As comparing a company that stands behind planetside 2 to faf is just not possible (do i need to mention common sense?).

You still did not post an actual argument why the moderator descision is legitimate.
If you are saying "they own it, they can do whatever they want"; you are first of all, not even completly correct, and second of all, imagine how ANY company / online community would crash if they do not react to feedback.

Again, read the terms of service. No where is the right to rename guaranteed and the terms may be changed at any time. You agreed to those terms so your whole argumentation is ridiculous. Now stop making a fool out of yourself. If you feel wronged, sue them about it and see what happens…
Unless you can point to something binding in the terms of service that underpins your argument, stop posting nonsensical arguments.
This level of reasoning is the same level applied by the balance team and the reason why the FAF mod is such trash.

Evildrew

@thewreck said in The End of FAF:

No you don't have that right

Ok I get no special rights but you get the right to speak for everyone including myself when you claim no one ever had an issue with people constantly renaming though you say you only speak for 6 people. Very interesting…

FtXCommando

@thewheelienoob said in The End of FAF:

@ftxcommando xDDDD do you mean the game where my acu exploded in ur base when u were preparing a comdrop?

It's funny because with your perspective a mod might actually ban me for it. In reality, while demotivated, i tried to drop my acu in ur base so that u could help me go t3 and i would comdrop with you. Im guessing a few asf shot me down, i wasnt really looking

If it wasnt that game then i'd like to know which it was

Oh I didn’t know you got shot down I just thought you walked in because the recall failed

Nuggets

@evildrew said in The End of FAF:

Again, read the terms of service. No where is the right to rename guaranteed and the terms may be changed at any time. You agreed to those terms so your whole argumentation is ridiculous. Now stop making a fool out of yourself. If you feel wronged, sue them about it and see what happens…
Unless you can point to something binding in the terms of service that underpins your argument, stop posting nonsensical arguments.
This level of reasoning is the same level applied by the balance team and the reason why the FAF mod is such trash.

Can someone explain to this man that this is not about the terms of service?
EVERYONE knows they can theoretically change that feature. That is not what is being discussed (as i said, you have no clue as to what is going on). I wonder why you do not post this in the rename thread? Please go ahead to farm some more downvotes.
Sorry, but i geniuenly can't be bothered to continue to try to explain the situtaion to someone, who i know will not understand even after 20 more pages of text.