M28AI Devlog (v162)

v_k

@maudlin27 The replay runs smoothly on my end too. I'm not sure micro-freezes would have been noticeable though.

That said, I've started today (with the same version of M28 we used the other day) the same map with 7 AIs + me, and everything runs fine. i'm guessing this was more of an issue with FAF servers.
Again, I was not convinced this had anything to do with your mod (as M27 behaved similarly), but I thought this was worth mentioning as I reported the other issue anyway (pretty sure it is related to M28 this time).
For that other issue, in case it could help, I can reproduce when creating a new game (M28 on any spot of Adaptative Turtle Beach will not do anything).

Thanks again, let me know if you need any information.

maudlin27

@v_k Thnaks, yes the issue on that map has been fixed so should be working following the next release

baki

how i can install m28 ai

mattcee233

@baki Go to the Mods tab in the FAF launcher - search for M28 and install it, then if you create a custom game you can enable it as a SIM mod

baki

@mattcee233 I have bug on the FAF launcher![Снимок экрана (870).png]

Image removed by Global Moderator magge: You can appeal against your ban via the stated email under the ban message.

maudlin27

That's a ban, not a bug. I expect you could get FAF to work offline (by downloading via github) and then download M28 mod via github to play against it offline.

maudlin27

v25 Update
24 Mostly minor and campaign specific points. One more widespread change was rewriting how land pathing logic is done which significantly reduces the time at the start of the game on larger land maps, at the cost of accuracy. It's possible this might cause M28 to break on some maps so let me know if it doesn't work at all on a map (I've tested on a few different ones so hopefully have caught most cases).

Seraphim Mission 4 - 5 changes, mostly minor points or bugfixes
Seraphim Mission 5 - 5 changes, including better SMD defence against a Yolona Oss, and gunships trying to avoid friendly Ahwassa bomb fire
Coalition Mission 1 - 3 changes, including better late-game power stall handling, and having untis in campaign not try and reinforce zones outside the playable map. Note that even after these changes M28 is unable to complete this mission on easy without cheats (it managed to with AiX 1.2 modifier on easy).
Coalition Mission 3 - Rewriting of part of the land pathing logic (that was taking c.85s and now only takes 7.5s, bringing the total map loading time down from 95s to 17.5s); 2 other changes (including fixing how 'large' campaign maps are treated for various parts of M28's logic to be based on the final expanded map size instead of the initial playable area)
Fixed bug causing Adaptive turtle beach to not load
7 other changes, including making land experimentals more aggressive when they can't kite, and able to focus down an enemy ACU.

Acknowledgements

V_k – Replay showing M28 is broken on Adaptive Turtle Beach
Zhanghm18 – Noting that M28 builds too many experimental shields for mods with such an option enabled

maudlin27

v26 Update
30 changes for a 5v5 replay on Xander adaptive, addition of telesnipe logic, and 4 other changes, including:

Greater focus on ecoing for bases in an eco/air slot (i.e. that have teammates between them and the enemy)
Reduced the extent to which air staging facilities and pre-emptive SMD are built simultaneously by every teammate
Fixed a bug that was leading to over-building of factories
ACUs should be less keen on getting expensive upgrades and more likely to assist other units
Enemy T2 arti should deter building PD and upgrading mexes in its range
Refined gunship targeting logic to make them less aggressive when they're scattered across the map and reducing the value given to experimental 'gunships' (Czar and soulripper)
Further work on special shielding logic to try and improve its application (maybe one day it will work smoothly...)
New Tele-snipe logic - while I expect it will rarely trigger and so won't have been worth the effort required to implement from a competitive perspective, my hope is it leads to some fun surprises occasionally (plus it's something that M27 doesn't do)

Acknowledgements

Radde - sharing 2 2v2 replays on Xander adaptive (and also using M28 for a separate game that I used as the basis for most of the changes in this update)
res - for mentioning they played against M28 in a replay for review (which when I chekced highlighted a flaw with M28's build order on that map that led it to a major power stall - only partially fixed in this update since I saw it just as I was about to release M28 so now it just has a moderate power stall)

Saver

Hello maudlin, I tested your new version and had a few warnings. Here the log. 1922c969-ae39-467e-9586-c01ce48971f0-game_20699863.log unfortunately no replay was generated.

maudlin27

@saver What map did you try it on?
(Edit - nevermind, figured out it was signalpoint_team_ai, I'll have a look)

zhanghm18

@maudlin27 said in M28AI Devlog (v26):

v26 Update
30 changes for a 5v5 replay on Xander adaptive, addition of telesnipe logic, and 4 other changes, including:

Greater focus on ecoing for bases in an eco/air slot (i.e. that have teammates between them and the enemy)

Reduced the extent to which air staging facilities and pre-emptive SMD are built simultaneously by every teammate

Fixed a bug that was leading to over-building of factories

ACUs should be less keen on getting expensive upgrades and more likely to assist other units

Enemy T2 arti should deter building PD and upgrading mexes in its range

Refined gunship targeting logic to make them less aggressive when they're scattered across the map and reducing the value given to experimental 'gunships' (Czar and soulripper)

Further work on special shielding logic to try and improve its application (maybe one day it will work smoothly...)

New Tele-snipe logic - while I expect it will rarely trigger and so won't have been worth the effort required to implement from a competitive perspective, my hope is it leads to some fun surprises occasionally (plus it's something that M27 doesn't do)

Acknowledgements

Radde - sharing 2 2v2 replays on Xander adaptive (and also using M28 for a separate game that I used as the basis for most of the changes in this update)

res - for mentioning they played against M28 in a replay for review (which when I chekced highlighted a flaw with M28's build order on that map that led it to a major power stall - only partially fixed in this update since I saw it just as I was about to release M28 so now it just has a moderate power stall)

Hello! Maybe try to get AI to build more experimental 'gunships' (Czar and soulripper) rather than fewer? I used the M28 until now and Aeon hardly built Czar. cybran does build a few Soulrippers. I feel that there are still many restrictions on AI building experimental units, can you relax some restrictions, let AI build more diverse experimental units?

maudlin27

@zhanghm18 It shouldn't be building fewer of them - to clarify, the change I mentioned in the summary was to reduce how threatening M28 thinks its Czars and soulrippers are when judging if it's got a strong enough air force to assault a heavily fortified position. I was finding that it would proceed with an assault (as a Czar in mass terms is c.26 broadswords), the czar would quickly lose its shield, and it would retreat before it had overwhelmed the shields, leading to a bunch of losses for no gain.

The reason it doesnt build them much though is both that it currently handles/uses them similarly to a normal gunship (M27's logic for czar in particular was highly specialised and would take some time to put in place) and I'm concerned that mass for mass T3 gunships (restorers/wailers) would be more cost effective since M28 is able to significantly reduce the downside of mass T3 gunships (that they die easily to aoe) while benefiting more from the upside (can be repaired at air staging).

Saver

hello maudlin,

I've used your AI with the new mobile factory features and I'm amazed your AI is already using them. WOW

maudlin27

@saver Unfortunately it's something I'll likely be disabling in the short term as it can lead to some errors (e.g. when aircraft carriers get near the shore or fatboys move from land to water) since M28 currently thinks these are immobile factory buildings. I'd been planning on adding specialised logic for the fatboy so will have a think if there's a simple change I can do so the feature isn't lost completely though.

Jip

You can differentiate them from 'normal' factories by using the EXTERNALFACTORYUNIT category

v_k

Hi @maudlin27

Just to let you know we found another map where M28 does nothing upon startup. M27 works fine. Do note the map is kinda buggy though (we had trouble building on some wrecked mexes), but I don't think it is related.

Here is the replay on the map (TriGap_alpha) that shows the issue: https://replay.faforever.com/20740907

Thank you!

v_k

Oh, btw, the telesnipe feature was a lot of fun, I lost a T3 artillery twice because of that Didn't expected the teleport, didn't even understood what happened after the first artillery loss.

Maybe an improvement would be that the AI teleports a support commander instead of the ACU, if possible. The second teleport of the AI was a failure (I had build T1 PDs) so he lost his ACU. Not a big deal as we were playing in Supremacy mode, but this would have possibly been a problem in case we were playing in Assassination mode. The teleport was indeed a suicide mission in that case, no way a commander would escape that amount of DPS with my PDs. Would have been a great suicide TP for a support commander though.

maudlin27

@v_k Thanks, it should be more cautious with the telesnipe in assassination mode, especially if it's the last ACU on M28's team (although it may still try as a last-ditch attempt)

Re 20740907, it works ok for me (as a desynced replay), so I'm hoping it's due due to the recent FAF exe changes (which means there's a difference in the underlying game exe between FAF develop and FAF) as I've had similar reports on other maps where M28 normally works fine. Prior to the next patch arriving (which I've heard mention might be in the next few days) one suggestion if this happens is to try hosting the game on FAF develop (if it's not working on FAF), or on FAF (if it's not working on FAF develop).

maudlin27

v27 Update
Assortment of different changes, ranging from improving the build order on one map, refining late-game logic, and optimising pathing for large maps

10 mostly build order based changes to Verdant Valley
Fixed a bug with generating map pathing that caused Signalpoint team AI map to not work, along with fixing a bug during games on maps with underwater mexes
15 changes based on a Xander6 Adaptive replay, including adjustments to decisions on what experimental should be built, more precise gunship targeting logic, fixing a bug that meant Czars and SoulRippers often wouldnt attack, and fixing a bug that meant telesnipe upgrades would take much longer to get
2 changes based on Selkie Isle map (fixing a bug with overbuilding SMD against Seraphim battleships, and making M28's air force more likely to defend torpedo bombers)
8 changes based on fields of isis, mostly around trying harder to shield friendly T2 arti
Units with mobile factories (e.g. aircraft carriers) should no longer be treated as factories (so shouldn't build anything). However, to compensate for this I've added support for using the fatboy as a mobile factory.
Significant reduction in the time taken to load frostmill ruins, to under a minute (for decent CPUs), from a previously unrecordable (due to how long it would take) time
10 other changes, including adding a redundancy for when engineers get stuck trying to load into a transport, improvements to the unit cap logic and fixing a bug that would cause land factories to be overbuilt late-game

Acknowledgements

Saver – Highlighting error on Signal point map
Radde – 4 more replays, including one that featured M28’s first successful double-tele-snipe (which was great to see)
Babel, V_k, Anon, and Jip and Relent0r – Babel, V_K and another user highlighted maps where M28 didn’t appear to work. I got similar issues but with Jip and Relent0rs help I realised I was getting the error if I tried playing FAF after updating the FAF develop exe, or vice versa (trying to play FAF develop after having updated the FAF exe), so I expect this is the same point – i.e. it’s due to changes made to FAF which should hopefully align the two in a few days.
Sprouto – suggesting warping engineers that are stuck with a transport load order (but not actually loading) to be at the transport location (which solved the issue in one replay)

maudlin27

v28 Update
Smaller update focused on the 40km map Spiralarm Harbour:

Further pathing optimisation, reducing the time taken to load this map from 319s to 16s (at the cost of accuracy) - very large maps with large numbers of islands should make use of this optimisation, but for most maps the more accurate previous method should be used
20 Other changes, including:
Improved transport rush build order (including use of multiple transports if there are lots of islands to drop and few players), and other initial build order tweaks
Fixed some issues with transports, particularly where there are multiple transports being managed, that could result in no engineers being loaded, or engineers being dropped at islands that already have factories
Expanded civilian capture logic to cover capturing civilian mexes, hydros, and other power, and factored in the unit to be captured's build time to the decision of how many engineers to send to capture it
Fixed some issues with the unit cap that could lead to the unit cap being reached, and that were preventing air staging or mexes being built