@advena said in Points of Imbalance.:
All units start out off range
All units get into range ASAP
Using move order (No attack move)
No units leave firing range
No vet at start of fight
No unit try to retreat
No stealth or other dirty cybran tricks
ML: 20000 mass, 27500 BT
10 bricks: 12800 mass, 48000 BT
15 bricks: 19200 mass, 72000 BT
ML kills 10 bricks. 12000 hp remains
15 bricks kill ML. 8 bricks remains
30 bricks kill 2 ML. 17 remain
2ML kill 20 bricks. 15000+ hp remain
Just for lulz:
100 medusas (3600 mass) kill ML. 36 remain (5 killed by on death explosion)
Yet microed ML can avoid almost all damage
https://replay.faforever.com/13090487
Did some testing with different number of bricks
@moses_the_red said in Points of Imbalance.:
That sounds reasonable. I'd shoot for 13-14 bricks to kill a ML when micro'd well, and a similar 80-85% mass efficiency for bricks versus all assault experimentals.
Very close to current situation in direct fight
12 bricks die to ML
14 bricks kill ML
PS Attack move ML can die even to 10 bricks cos of attack order sorting and slow turret
edit: added build time to mass comparison
edit2: did some testing with different number of bricks
edit2: mentioned attack move
I think you missed the replay where I went up against Tagada (currently #3 in the world) and was able to consistently kill 15 or so bricks in an open area with a Monkeylord.
My 1v1 rating is about 700... If a 700 can kill 15-16 bricks consistently against the #3 player in the world... well... its not 13-14.
Its somewhere between 16 and 20. I was unable to kill 20, and was consistently able to kill 15-16. It was admittedly pretty close, so perhaps 16 is the limit, perhaps 17 is the limit. Perhaps with practice I could pull off 18, idk. The point is its too high.
For reference, at launch, it was general knowledge that 10-12 bricks would kill a Monkeylord, so you can see just how significant the T3 balance patch was for assault experimentals. We're not talking about a small change.
Here's the patch itself:
https://content.faforever.com/patchnotes/3696.html
How hard was the Brick hit with the nerfhammer? Pretty damn hard.
Health 9000->7500 ~ 17% decrease
Damage -> 17% decrase
Range -> 8.5% decrease
DPS -> 17% decrease
Its worth mentioning that changes like this are multiplicative. The brick isn't 17% less effective than it was. Its 1.17 * 1.17 * 1.085 times less effective. In real terms this is somewhere around a one third drop in unit effectiveness. You probably need 3 new bricks to be as effective as 2 of the old bricks. Interestingly this seems to mesh with notion that it takes 15-17 bricks to kill a ML where before it took 10-12.
That is a massive nerf to the brick.
And I'm not saying it wasn't justified. I like T2/T3 balance as it is more or less. There's more to that change set than just the balance dynamic between T3 land and assault experimentals.
But that kind of nerf with no corresponding nerf to assault experimentals has left T3 units in a terrible state relative to T4.
And its not just the brick (although perhaps the brick got it the worst) the entire slate of T3 units was hit in that patch.
Given that level of capability decrease of course T4 assault experimentals were going to wind up OP.