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Can we please stop the smurfing in tmm

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  • E
    Eternal-
    last edited by 16 Sept 2022, 17:10

    Dude, be smarter. Play unranked games, return to TMM after years of unranked games and fuck them all

    Profile | Eternal MOD pack | Check new client

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    • M
      maudlin27 @Caliber
      last edited by 16 Sept 2022, 18:13

      @caliber Your figures seem wrong - I was around 1.5-1.6k global, and checking the replay of my first TMM game it looks like I was treated as 1.1k rank (it displayed as 0 rank in-game); that game was a loss for me.

      You're also assuming global rank is as valuable as TMM rank. I'd rather a 1.1k TMM player than a 1.5k global player as a teammate.

      M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v150

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • C
        Caliber
        last edited by 16 Sept 2022, 18:38

        The figures were just to get the point accros and where in no way suppost to be accurate.

        Would you like to play against a competent 2000 player who is rated as a 1200 in tmm?

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        • F
          FemtoZetta
          last edited by 16 Sept 2022, 18:49

          Can you give some examples? Which games that you played were super unbalanced because of "smurfs"?

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          • C
            Caliber
            last edited by Caliber 17 Sept 2022, 15:21

            @FemtoZetta
            i have had too many games to find them all but this is the most recent
            replay id 18033363

            im not going to put names here as i do not want to seem like im accusing anyone of anything, like i said its not the players doing anything its just the way the system is.

            but in that replay there is a 0 player whos tmm score is a think 900 but shown as 0 as its there first game i think in tmm, although their global is 1349

            its seems that most players i come across who have just began tmm have been playing faf for a while and are accuratly portrayed by there global skill level and there is no reason to demote them in the tmm.

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            • B
              BlackYps
              last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 15:36

              People being shown as 0 in their first matchmaker game is a visual bug caused by the client. They get matched with the correct tmm rating - 900 in this case. This bug will be fixed when we display league divisions instead of rating in matchmaker games and hopefully stop the confusion

              A 1 Reply Last reply 17 Sept 2022, 17:27 Reply Quote 3
              • A
                arma473 @BlackYps
                last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 17:27

                @blackyps said in Can we please stop the smurfing in tmm:

                This bug will be fixed when we display league divisions instead of rating in matchmaker games

                Don't do this

                "We're taking away your ability to see a ratings number, it's for your own good"

                What am I, in kindergarten?

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                • B
                  BlackYps
                  last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 17:48

                  We're at the same time giving a different "skill" metric. There is basically no change in what information you get. People will just have to get accustomed to the new brackets

                  P A 2 Replies Last reply 17 Sept 2022, 20:17 Reply Quote 0
                  • M
                    maudlin27
                    last edited by maudlin27 17 Sept 2022, 18:02

                    Is there scope for making it more informative/helping clarify what a rating means? For example, you mouse-over the rating icon by a player on the score-card (assuming that's how it gets implemented) and a tooltip pops up saying 'In the top x% of players' (with the x% varying based on the bracket)?

                    It wouldn't even need to be specific to the bracket (e.g. just give the % for gold rather than gold 1, gold 2 gold 3 etc. if a % split by the placement within the wider bracket is thought too close to giving us something like the current rating score).

                    M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v150

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                    • P
                      Pearl12 @BlackYps
                      last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 20:17

                      @blackyps said in Can we please stop the smurfing in tmm:

                      We're at the same time giving a different "skill" metric. There is basically no change in what information you get. People will just have to get accustomed to the new brackets

                      Is it just going to be the same problem though where people would rather play at the top of the bracket below where they should be vs. the bottom of the bracket they're in? Like, if I'm the worst of 100 people in my bracket, why wouldn't I just throw a few games so I could be the best of 100 people in the bracket below it?

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                      • F
                        FtXCommando
                        last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 20:20

                        He's saying Silver III becomes 50th percentile and Silver IV is 55th percentile or whatever when you hover over it.

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                        • A
                          arma473 @BlackYps
                          last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 23:46

                          @blackyps It is different. I already know all of the numbers

                          I don't know all of the stupid leagues and sub-leagues

                          I know what it means if there's two 1500s against a 2k + 1k

                          I don't know what it means if there's Diamond I + Copper III vs. two Copper IVs

                          We will need UI mods to give proper score boards that display rating

                          Or will FAF admins ban those too?

                          P 1 Reply Last reply 17 Sept 2022, 23:59 Reply Quote 2
                          • S
                            Saphed
                            last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 23:50

                            why would it be banned?

                            Remember: Losing is Fun!

                            A 1 Reply Last reply 17 Sept 2022, 23:52 Reply Quote 0
                            • A
                              arma473 @Saphed
                              last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 23:52

                              @saphed said in Can we please stop the smurfing in tmm:

                              why would it be banned?

                              Because they want to take it away from us

                              It would eat them up inside to know that the community can just ignore their BS and see the numbers

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                              • S
                                Saphed
                                last edited by Saphed 17 Sept 2022, 23:53

                                tbh this league system is just a weird ui thing over the rating system. If your rating is lower than your league you get less league advancement and vice versa. It won't deviate much lol

                                Remember: Losing is Fun!

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • S
                                  Saphed
                                  last edited by 17 Sept 2022, 23:55

                                  I don't think it will hurt their insides that much. You do you

                                  Remember: Losing is Fun!

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                                  • P
                                    phong @arma473
                                    last edited by phong 17 Sept 2022, 23:59

                                    @arma473 the older I get the more I resent change, I understand. Have no idea what the leagues mean either, maybe we need some infographic to make it clear. I'll make one at some point. But the current system is just so absolutely terrible for new players. I'm confident that this change will increase player retention more than it makes vets quit the game, especially in the long run. And after mumbling about it for a week or two, us old men will grudgingly learn it and then forget about it.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • F
                                      FtXCommando
                                      last edited by 18 Sept 2022, 01:00

                                      You "dunno what it means" because you never use it. The reason you "know what it means" with rating is because you use it. Someone unfamiliar with rating knows 0 except more = better. Someone unfamiliar with leagues knows 0 except shinier badge = better.

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                                      • C
                                        Caliber
                                        last edited by 18 Sept 2022, 20:04

                                        Just played a game earlier today where every player on the other team where 300 points below their global score and the guys that i play with some are accuratly 900-1000 skill playing against 1200s who are actually 1500-1600 skill level, needless to say we lost that game.

                                        It doesnt matter how you choose to represent skill level wether its numbers or pictures, if its not acurate its worthless.

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                                        • S
                                          Sladow-Noob
                                          last edited by 18 Sept 2022, 21:40

                                          @Caliber That's... How it works though? They win games until they hit the rank they deserve, since TMM isn't established that long, it takes some time until all players (the more inactive ones as well) get their rank?

                                          Inactive.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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