Cybran T2 PD - Balance review please

Can we please look at the balance of the Cybran T2 PD which has been useless since the start of time. I just played a 4v4 where the enemy Com was happy to walk into 3 X T2 PD + one T1 PD that were under a shield. I focused all the PD early on the enemy Com. Replay ID = #17214618
Enemy Com just walked into my base firing at my Com which died when his eventually died, taking out my base in the process.

In previous games, I have also had 5 x T2 PD over-run by a line of T1 Arty.

Cybran have few options to protect a base until T3. Fair enough their PD is weaker but Cybran T2 PD I believe should receive a balance review please.

Cybran rant over

One Cerberus is weak vs a commander but three under a shield is not, that definitely should deter a commander with no shield or nano. I didn’t watch the replay, what were the commander upgrades? If they had shield or nano then 3 pd of any faction isn’t enough

Aeon Commander with Gun & Gun Speed. He had 3 vets by the time he got to my base but still...how many PD are required to be invested (its a static defence)... general rule is 1-2, so I thought 3 x T2 + t1 would be reasonable....

Cerberus is the cheapest t2 pd. In addition, Cybran has the cheapest t2 shields and stealth. (t2 shield are even cheaper than cerberus and x3 cheaper than other factions' t2 shields)

Also OC exist

Agreed shields are good but they don't stop Coms or units. Few T1 Coms are going to walk into 2 x UEF unshielded PD and never 3 PD, yet 3 x Cybran T2 PD under shield and enemy didn't even bother the OC them...just walked on past....no deterrent at all which is the point of PD...building 5 T2 PD seems overkill...

All I am saying is a Cybran Stealth Gun Com + 3 X T2 PD + T1 PD + Shield could not stop 1 Com....seems like a balance issue to me. Happy for the balance group to decide, just thought I would show an example of the issue....

Checking the replay his T1 spam depleted the shield before it died, while his ACU had twice your ACU's health when it engaged (14k to 7k), and the PD whittled its health down quickly leading to it dying while your ACU was left on 0.6k health after the ACU explosion

Here is my analysis of T2 PDs and T2 shields. As you can see, while Cybran is the worst in terms of DPS / Mass cost, it's the best in terms of HP / Mass cost. It's 29% better than the average in terms of HP / Mass cost and 25% worse in DPS / Mass cost.

I would say that overall it's a fair trade-off and therefore I don't believe that the PD is imbalanced.
It's also worth mentioning that Cybran PD doesn't miss while Aeon and UEF ones can be dodged.

I think having more DPS is more helpful for T2 PD than having more HP, especially since T2 PD significantly outrange regular land units (so, they often deal damage while taking little to no damage).

5 cyb t2 pd probably the best thing for dealing with a swarm of t1 arty, uef and aeon suck at it and sera can lose dps shooting at ground/transferring to new target.

No AoE tradeoff -> gives max reclaim from wrecks

Less dps tradeoff -> cheaper to set up, harder for OC to chew thru, and doesn’t get dodged

Also the 1-2 rule is if you’re properly using your ACU to block OC while also setting up t1 pd further up in range of the ACU, you’re absolutely not killing an ACU with “just 1-2 t2 pd” and nothing else with it.

It also seems like some people expect all factions to have equally effective T2 PD. Even taking into account the cheaper cost of a Cerberus they are generally weaker in most situations except for the case of mass t1 arty spam. That’s ok, Cybran frigates are just strictly better than all others overall, Sera T3 shields are strictly better than other T3 shields when you account for everything.. Cybran has the weakest static structures because it generally has very fast and effective units. It would be boring if all structures were the same but UEF gets 20% more health, Aeon gets 20% more damage, Cybran gets 20% cheaper cost etc

In my experience, a guncom will easily walk over 3 t2 pd and 2 t1 pd. Specially if reinforced with units. Killing the shield or T2 pd grants super quick Vet so it’s a self fixing problem. I agree 5 t2 pd are absolutely too much but 3 are doable.

Also you can shield pd with your ACU, pretty nasty

zeldafanboy said in Cybran T2 PD - Balance review please:

Sera T3 shields are strictly better than other T3 shields when you account for everything

When you actually account for everything, I think Aeon shields are better or at least equal because they are way cheaper.

I also think that cybran firebases are quite at an disatvantage. Also cybran needs them the most with their weak acu. I think a buildtime buff for t2 pd and shields would help the most for cybran.

The Cerberus turret is the most versatile turret. Don't like it, pick another faction instead of trying to make everything the same!

@bangernoob

The way I see it, land balance has 4 major aspects: units, ACU, structures, (and later on experimentals)

Even though Cybran has weaker mid game structures and ACU it has strong units and experimentals. Furthermore because getting map control is usually more important, its better to have strong units that can both defend and move to attack than just strong structures that can only defend