Why I think T3 air is badly designed

@FtXCommando forgive my ignorance but wouldnt say 10 janus although i undertsand they are good at air-air fighting for a T2 unit but wouldnt they get asbolutely wrecked by 10 ASF? and the build time is about triple that of an ASF.

If you mean trying to deny a T3 air factory with T2 bombers, i have tried that with limited succes as they are very weak to flak and shields and the HQ health is very high.

Perhaps reducing the health of a T3 air factory would go some way into denying/punishing an early T3 rush?

Although i have had some succes fighting early T3 with a large number of T1 inties but that only takes you so far.

Personaly i think buffing the fighter aspect of T2 air would be the most reasonable change, reducing build time and reducing bomber damage but increasing aa damage and speed or somehting like that.

I may open this subject in the balance column get peaoples thaughts.

You can get 10 janus out when 1st ASF is out. You keep forcing bad engagements and as long as you outnumber ASF 4:1 or so you won't lose air. I've managed to maintain air control for like 35 minutes in game by doing this.

Buff the AA of t2 air and you basically turn them into the new ASFs where it's impossible to counter them with anything that isn't t2 bombers. Frankly it's easier to counter ASF with t2 air than it is to counter t3 land with t2 land.

ASF just cost too little mass and build too quickly, upping both by a about a third would go a long way to making them feel less instantly oppressive against lower tiers but still dominate once you have numbers, a bit more like how swifties work.

Strat could get a nerf to power cost, so you basically need the t3 pgen before you can rush it

@black_wriggler said in Why I think T3 air is badly designed:

ASF just cost too little mass and build too quickly, upping both by a about a third would go a long way to making them feel less instantly oppressive against lower tiers but still dominate once you have numbers, a bit more like how swifties work.

Once you have a T3 air grid up, yes. When the T3 air HQ is first up, no. On the other hand, SAMs are extremely effective at local air control.

Before T3, combating T2 bombers without air can be quite hard. If you have T2 land and pgen + shields already, fine, or if you can directly attack the enemy base, but otherwise... you need about 2 T1 AA turrets per corsair to defend which is 3/4 the mass, assuming they are spread enough not to take splash damage. Vs Janus it's probably worse (unless really spread out). This is too expensive except as a very specific counter around a single base. T2 flak turrets aren't really better in terms of mass, except maybe with larger numbers due to the higher chance of hitting other T2 bombers. T1 MAA is a cheaper counter, but also has very little armour so you need to spread them out and have lots.

Also noticed in testing: a corsair can kill a T1 AA turret in one pass fairly reliably if on a straight approach from far. But the default attack runs are very short with corsair missiles fired just as the unit finishes the turn, and in this case the turret takes only about half the damage.

@cptant I agree.

The way I did it in the mod I made was to ultimately make AA countered by air experimentals, which were countered by ground-based T3AA. Since there isn't a lot of variation at T3, you might end up having to chain its balance to ground balance.

I also feel like the overemphasis on generalist units hurts things-whoever spams the generalist combat unit and controls it better-there isn't a rock/paper/scissors type balance.

This man has never seen a Grimplex air crush with Janus against strats and ASF kappa

@percithundercock said in Why I think T3 air is badly designed:

Im quiet a low skilled player, so may opinion may not be counted.
But if we fantasy some.

How about SLOT-BASED ASF?
T2 air factory can be upgraded to ASF-base. It supports, lets say 16 ASFs, build it automatically, like drones and support\repair it.
What we can get from it?
Lost air can be comebacked fast.
But as winner's ASFs survived and can be docked to base very fast - they save veteranacy.
Winner in most cases have more bases and so it ASF cap still higher.
Also - air carriers\CZAR\Atlantis may also work as ASF base, increase comeback potential for land\naval players.

PS it opens way to some interesting ways to play with fuel and fuel-games.

No seriusly, no body takes this into account? This is also nice counter to T3 strat rush, yes, you still can rush T3 bomber, you must choose bomber or ASF dock first? And if you choose bomber, it is become cheese strategy, because you cant fast send cover for him.

“The missile guidance system knows where the missile is at all times because it knows where the missile is not”

Instead of adding another air unit to counter clumps, The US and Russia both have missile ~5 kiloton fission warhead long range Air defense missiles designed to take out the entire wings of bombers/fighters.

Why not add a new missile to the tactical missile launcher that has to be manually targeted and it’s a air only aoe mini nuke. It’s high risk high reward but if you predict where the air blob is going to be you can take out. 20-30 a missile. Set the mass and energy costs of the missile to 40% of 25 asfs but with an equal build time and you can only stock one per launcher.

It might even be interesting if it did EMP damage to ground shields and stunned units in same area area.

@fichom

This would actually be freaking awesome!!!
Even if it wasn’t very effective it would still be really fun.

T3 Sams in UEFs shielded T3 transports would probably be stupid OP. But if only T1 and T2 AA could fire while on transports it would still be pretty fun and at least give players some other options to fight against air It kind of makes sense that Sams couldn’t fire from a transport with the rocket back blast.

If it ended up being too OP you could always give the units being carried a rate of fire Nerf.

If someone could make a mod that maa can fire in transports it certainly would be fun. If this would be a serious considered balance patch one nerf could be tech level that can fire