Time to become more friendly to new people as a game
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@tagada I suspect that in order to make a proper tutorial and coop for newbies, i need to make a new mission to implement all of the ideas. Also easy coop is not exactly for newbies. they are playing it few hours a game which is not good, i plan to make small additional task for example "go reclaim that" or "go kill it with navy". Those tasks can be called tips for newbies. And make a medium difficulty as a place to play with friends regardless of they rating. And leave hard as it is now.
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Are we talking about the coop version of the campaign missions here?
While I agree that many of the new non-campaign coop missions can be quite tough, I don't remember the default coop missions to be particularly challenging. Am I just misremembering? -
@cheeseberry Yes. Faf version of campaign. They are not challenging, since new players dont know how to play the game and cant handle without tips they are destined to play a single mission for hours which makes them frustrated as a result leaving faf or coop forever.
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I will point out that back in 2007, I grew to love the game by repeatedly failing the FA campaign. I think literally every time I countered a point where the map expanded, I would lose shortly afterwards. It took me like 5 tries to complete each mission, and that was an incredibly fun experience I still recall today. I think some of the changes FAF made to the vanilla campaign could maybe be rolled back (or at least keep the original difficulties, and add the FAF difficulties on top of that [e.g., originally you had Easy, Medium, Hard, but now you have Extreme on FAF]), but overall remaking the coop campaign to make it friendlier/more accessible than the vanilla versions is not necessary.
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Just FYI, one of the top, maybe highest priority for me is to 1) Carry on events for FAF, 2) Actually DO SOMETHING with FAF training, tutorials, and etc. The "tutorial" tab in the client is largely left with a "here, this is how you would do it," and nothing more. Part of what is being done to streamline the process is create a "FAF University Curriculum" rather just post old, Youtube videos and call it a day.
Banani, I will help coordinate with you to get this going as it can only help. Great idea.
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Is it possible to play recorded video in maps to explain concepts like reclaim, adjacency, power stalling, regen, sniping, area of effect?
A "new player" co-op campaign might be a good way to go about delivering this. A single point of focus that teaches the basics that existing players or community people can point beginners to?
I have zero coding ability so im probably not much help with it.
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It kindof annoys me that most of the coop missions are really long. My fav ones are the ones from the og campaign that you can only build some t1 units and finish in like 10-20 minutes. IMO we should have something like that but better geared towards teaching FAF.
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@askaholic said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
It kindof annoys me that most of the coop missions are really long. My fav ones are the ones from the og campaign that you can only build some t1 units and finish in like 10-20 minutes. IMO we should have something like that but better geared towards teaching FAF.
100%
And if each of these missions was designed to teach just 1-3 new skills, then people would have a much better idea as to what skills they need to work on in order to advance through the campaign.
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How hard is it to change the first supcom mission? Could we duplicate it then make a munch of scenarios out of it.
Just change the start to what we are trying to accomplish
2 pgen build order
Hydro rush build orderThen maybe work on things like
Mex upgrades
T2 hqs -
Vanilla supcom campaign wasnt designed to teach you play, and it wasnt designed to teach you play FAF at all. It was designed to slowly introduce units.
It would be much better to create a new campaign or missions with FAF balance in mind and clear things you wanna teach the player, it's possible to combine it with some sort of story so it's a still fun mission.
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@derpfaf said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
Is it possible to play recorded video in maps to explain concepts like reclaim, adjacency, power stalling, regen, sniping, area of effect?
It is possible
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@speed2 said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
It would be much better to create a new campaign or missions with FAF balance in mind and clear things you wanna teach the player, it's possible to combine it with some sort of story so it's a still fun mission.
Btw, there were a bunch of suggestions about the specific contents of such missions by me and others in the noob matchmaker thread, starting here: https://forum.faforever.com/post/14449
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@katharsas said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
@speed2 said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
It would be much better to create a new campaign or missions with FAF balance in mind and clear things you wanna teach the player, it's possible to combine it with some sort of story so it's a still fun mission.
Btw, there were a bunch of suggestions about the specific contents of such missions by me and others in the noob matchmaker thread, starting here: https://forum.faforever.com/post/14449
Yeah, those are some decent ideas
And I would much rather see something new that is designed for that purpose than trying to force the change into the existing stuff that was never meant for that purpose. -
@veteranashe that was exactly the plan.
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In the first supcom mission it has you build 3 mexes, then some pgens or something, then a land face
That is exactly teaching you to play, and teaching the wrong starting build order
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The problem with the campaign isn't that it teaches the wrong build order, its that it teaches you not to even think about build orders. Just do whatever, build up some point defense, upgrade your mexes until you're ready to advance the scenario. There's no pressure to be efficient. You can learn basic gameplay mechanics but you can't learn how to become a t1 tank spammer.
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@veteranashe said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:
In the first supcom mission it has you build 3 mexes, then some pgens or something, then a land face
That is exactly teaching you to play, and teaching the wrong starting build order
That was correct/somewhat correct BO in Vanilla Supcom
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I remember vanilla supcom, and played online, was still factory first
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Maybe instead of a new campaign you could do something like what age of empires 3 DE Art Of War did. At the end of each mission you are given a gold silver and bronze medal
Each mission focus on learning a new game mechanic.
