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    Monkey Lord - roleless T4 that needs a Buff

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • ValkiV Offline
      Valki
      last edited by

      At certain ratings Monkeylord are far from bad, might it also be the most-built experimental all games combined?

      FAF has a wide dispersion of usefulness in units, is the Monkeylord really an outlier in terms of usefulness?
      In casts I seem to see it more often than Novax for example.

      A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • A Offline
        ANALyzeNoob @Valki
        last edited by ANALyzeNoob

        @Valki said in Monkey Lord - roleless T4 that needs a Buff:

        At certain ratings Monkeylord are far from bad, might it also be the most-built experimental all games combined?

        FAF has a wide dispersion of usefulness in units, is the Monkeylord really an outlier in terms of usefulness?
        In casts I seem to see it more often than Novax for example.

        It is horrible to argue balance is flawed because "at certain ratings" players are too ignorant to know the best strategies. Obviously low rating players are doing things wrong, hence, their rating. e.g. "Yeah, 'at certain ratings' mass storages around t3 mexes are rare, so their adjacency bonus needs to be buffed." The problem has nothing to do with game balance, it is ignorance.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • ResistanceR Offline
          Resistance
          last edited by

          yeah,i do agree that even in mid game it's so bad due to op corsairs and several OC's,even on medium-sized maps(10x10),you can get a bunch of percies under a shield and a com and easily kill it,making it almost a 100% non-usuable in mid-tier->high ranked games,the very least usages it probably has is roaming,tho it's speed is not something that makes it incredible powerful,neither does stealth,with the recent t3 harb upgrades,the only fraction that would be bad against it is sera,howerver your opponent is gonna build a ythotha just in time considering the mass cost is just 6.500 higher than ML one and has twice effectiveness(20k/26.5k)

          queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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          • T Offline
            Tex
            last edited by

            Small speed buff would be quite interesting. Faster rushes across map, easier to close distance with percies/OC, and you could use it a bit more sneaky with the stealth by mixing up its positioning. Have it be something that lurks on the map like a shark, make it scared for you to move out.

            Just dreaming up ideas, don't mind me.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
            • DeribusD Offline
              Deribus Global Moderator
              last edited by Deribus

              Make it a jumping spider with a leap ability

              (Obviously I'm memeing)

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • T Offline
                Tex
                last edited by

                If you didn't like my speed buff idea you could just say so 😞

                DeribusD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ValkiV Offline
                  Valki
                  last edited by Valki

                  Cloaking ability that requires 10k energy (requires 12k mass in power plants)?

                  Maybe throw in 1 minute charge up to prevent abusive cloak blinking micro.

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                  • DeribusD Offline
                    Deribus Global Moderator @Tex
                    last edited by

                    @Tex said in Monkey Lord - roleless T4 that needs a Buff:

                    If you didn't like my speed buff idea you could just say so 😞

                    Oh no I didn't mean it like that. A speed buff was also one of the first things that popped to mind upon reading the OP

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                    • A Offline
                      ANALyzeNoob
                      last edited by

                      I like the idea of a movement speed buff, and while we are at it could we consider increasing it's turret turn speed? The monkey is especially frustrating when it is attacking different useless targets on opposite sides of it, which require a very long time for the turret to turn. This is especially critical when you are just getting in range of what you really want to attack (e.g. acu) with a move command but it takes an extra 5 seconds to actually start attacking because it was focusing on some t1 tanks behind it.

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                      • A Offline
                        ANALyzeNoob
                        last edited by ANALyzeNoob

                        https://replay.faforever.com/14222198
                        https://replay.faforever.com/14222278
                        Replays for anyone who would like to see just how incredibly easy it is to [edit: receive a Monkeylord mass donation] with an equivalent amount of mass invested into a few bricks and shields, with and without any acu overcharge.

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                        • ArranA Offline
                          Arran
                          last edited by

                          If, and I stress IF, the Monkeylord is underpowered, perhaps a solution would be allowing it to climb steeper terrain (like a spider can) to allow for more tactical deployment?

                          Ctrl-KC T 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Ctrl-KC Offline
                            Ctrl-K @Arran
                            last edited by

                            @Arran sounds like a nightmare...

                            “Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected.”
                            — Steve Jobs.
                            My UI Mods
                            Support me

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • T Offline
                              Tagada Balance Team
                              last edited by

                              I am 99% sure that something like this is not supported by the engine.

                              Dragun101D ResistanceR 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • JipJ Offline
                                Jip
                                last edited by Jip

                                It is supported 🙂 , but it would break on all of my maps where I use the 'unpathable' terrain type to cover some holes in the mountains that allow units to get on top 🙂
                                edit: I believe Madmax even made a unit as part of a tournament for that. Its in the vault

                                A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

                                MadMaxM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • ValkiV Offline
                                  Valki
                                  last edited by

                                  Why would a 10k energy cloak toggle not work?

                                  It prevents the Monkeylord from being discovered randomly by ASF, bombers, and raiders. Now it remains invisible until it approaches your omni radar, unless the opponent has set up a good T3 air scout patrol.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Dragun101D Offline
                                    Dragun101 @Tagada
                                    last edited by

                                    @Tagada said in Monkey Lord - roleless T4 that needs a Buff:

                                    I am 99% sure that something like this is not supported by the engine.

                                    It is and is not. But it can be done. I do it in SCTA even

                                    I’m a shitty 1k Global. Any balance or gameplay suggestions should be understood or taken as such.

                                    Project Head and current Owner/Manager of SCTA Project

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                                    • T Offline
                                      Tagada Balance Team
                                      last edited by

                                      Good to hear, the problem is that maps are not designed around this feature so it's not really a feasible solution anyways.

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                                      • MadMaxM Offline
                                        MadMax @Jip
                                        last edited by MadMax

                                        @Jip can confirm this is the case, it works right up until unpathable terrain type is used then its broken, admittedly the majority of maps don't use terrain types, until you start getting to the top 10% of maps it's certainly a case of the edge cases defining the rule tho. Edit I am thinking of adding that ability to all "spider tanks" in my mod at some point........ soon tm lol

                                        Vault Admin / Creative Team / Map Guru

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                                        • epic-bennisE Offline
                                          epic-bennis Banned
                                          last edited by epic-bennis

                                          I like a speed buff of ~ 8% and a bt reduction of 20%.

                                          That would significantly increase its value as a surprise weapon without increasing its combat effectiveness a lot so it doesn’t gain mass efficiency vs other units but gets stronger at its actual role.

                                          I wouldn’t change turret turn speed because it’s got a big ‘ol laser on its back and lore wise I think it makes sense this thing turns slowly.

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                                          • H Offline
                                            humanpotatoe
                                            last edited by

                                            This post is deleted!
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