FAF Beta - Feedback

@tagada said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Redirection of Billy Nuke by Loyalists

while the idea of the Billy being return to sender seems like a highlight of the in-game physics, it happens so very rarely that losing it does not seem significant.

what it would allow, is an increase in the tmd defense range for the loyas which could really use some buffs. currently the tmd return has such poor range that it is almost impossible to defend larger units or structures, eg a mega, because the tac missiles impact so high up. being able to use a few roaming loyalists to help defend your xps against tac batteries would be nice

More Sparky buffs

the added blueprints are great, with the exception of the t1 factories - not sure if this has been tested yet but i feel having a mix of riptides and sparkies vs navy, is going to be too strong when you can easily spam navy facs as you push forwarded for added frigs and taking all the reclkaim

Radius of 19 gives surface 10,8% smaller, than radius of 20. And it is a huge difference in-game. Now on the picture, one circle has surface about 2,6% smaller than another! Seems like straight up fraud.

Edit, it was not jet uploaded...

• Do something with cybran acu, its having choose gun or t2. except other factions may have two of it. Thats not cool. Also two shields' or two nano's of three factions against 1k hp stealth for acu. That difference make cyb acu fatal papper and useless after t1 stage and in that timings awesome

• Loyas should have some buff,cuz-a power of titans.

• Corsairs sshould have better turn rate, or at least do not missing t2 pgen or smth else. Thats stupid when 2 corsairs do not oneshoting t2 pgen cuz-a misses. Also useless at airfights and not balanced to t2 air of any of fractions.

• Upgraded at least one Shield from T2~-into max, would be nice to have it at the tab as ready to place, like it with a HQ's and Support Fac's.

• If u have an Atlantis, Air-crafter, Czar and able to build asfs, why the support fac's should not produce, if I can build this unit. But somehow HQ dies before.

• Mantis should have a bit increased turn rate, it having huge issue with a microing and like 70% times mantis just turining and cant shot this time.

• Stealth for real a useless with this balance thing's, if talk about ladder, the guy may have UEF, Aeon ACU. 10-12 shields some 5-7 t2 tanks, and in legally cybran acu with a 20 t2 and 3-4 stealth tanks will just lose this fight. Cuz-a only 1 air scout will show everything and ACU's power with OC and massive tanking hp, will just crush stronger army. Need an rebalance of stealth as balance it against shields of aeon-uef t2 stage.

• And something about cerberus, t2 cybran pd. Is not so good, like a aeon with oneshot-onekill, threeade as uef also pretty same, taushala as sera also is not bad, But something would be nice to have as advice, maybe increase turn rate, so it maybe will have at least one good thing, as unstop-able damaging units, as other factions having "loading" process between shots.

• Loyalist ability is at full mark are useless, for de fact. If u shot at unit and loya dies = u have damage to this unit like a 500~+ and loya will die with stun effect to this unit. Ability just saying = u can ctrl+k ur unit to stun with same timing. Its kinda useless as Say it against Shield(1.5x hp) for titans. Need rework this shit. Maybe would be cool change this useless and not effective charge into something like a T2 bomb. with a damage like its having t2 stealth bomb.

• Also addition info, game is fatal going from any agressive things, expanding. Fights between units and reclaim, into sandboxing and hard ecoing. Just for a fact of team games, u may have 0 tanks, and rushing t2 mexes as a whore, and U will have ahead at all game against enemy who did 15-20 tanks and do not can push cuz'a of acu and only one pd builded. After that became t3 rush what such a crushing ur t1-t2 units, with a less for a moment economy.

• Maybe we should stop looking towards the eco-sim, at least for a while, and add a pinch of extravagance and activity with the importance of map control. Or encourage gap eco-sims, sometimes a setton with 0 activity, otherwise you can lose the game in favor of activity in the game and implementation? After literally playing a bunch of setts and a couple of hundred gap games, it doesn't really matter if you win your lane, if you implement something better, and if you play any aspect of the game elegantly. It will all collapse if the little man just presses one button then another on the mex, and will be ahead of you in economics until the end of the game, if in the end you simply do not focus on the "economy" in order to simply be able to win. As a comparison of this situation, one can give an example of how Foley and Yudi play. Some people fucking rip their asses to win their lane and do it really well that you don't see players like that on a 2k+ stage in 1v1. And someone just press click then upgrade mekekes with a builing free units only t1, just for that so that the opponent wastes time on useless units until you make yourself a 3k incame. And you will not fatally bend the entire enemy team 1v4. It's really normal that the economy is so cancerous to the whole gameplay, micro moments, expansion and so on. It becomes boring, every time instead of various chips and gameplay of games, turn it into another eco-parade.

• I myself had to move away from gameplay, raids, control and implementation of evil and malicious plans in favor of the economy and the choice of other factions due to the fatal debuffs of cybrans and buffs(lovely factions of balance team) of the UEF and Sera factions that are favorite for games. It is still possible to cope with completely unplayable cybrans due to the implementation of other gameplay moments. But when they turn the game into a purely "Press F for mex to win" and the same with rac-bots, it becomes more like a cushioning cushion for any gameplay when you can simply destroy all. If we talk about the situation from 1 to 1, the situation is a little different there, you simply rush the metas, and thanks to the metas, you make free a lot of what you could spend on the implementation of something in favor of additional. t2 mex, and run amok with a strong tech economy. Here the situation is more likely from the implementation of these "strong actions" the economy goes into the background, also like a depreciation cushion. And again, again, if you can't destroy those naapany t2 mexs instead of units, any of your control of the map and killing t1 engineers, mexs, knocking out expansions is already doing only to the detriment of your own economic strength. Moreover, the person who starts responding to your units after he has made this coveted mech has the opportunity to make more units and also speed up the future to improve the mex.
  Do not force this text, if u have a bit different situation where mexes do not coring . I am talking about meta of 1.9k-3300, gameplay things. There are also exceptions here, in view of the commande teamgames where there may be several aggressors who realize this well in order to win. Here I am talking about meta and POWER of ECORUSH.

• And why did I leave this message in this place? Yes, because something is not what you do. Realize the balance between factions already. Balance between economy and gameplay. Where if you do something it should deal damage and not just slow you down for a while. Why once again cybran debuffs and buffs of other factions. Is it not enough that cybran is played less frequently now than it was in eons of 2018. What the fuck Sparky, a commander with a T2 and a cannon is not enough for you, that you can rape anyway wiout it?. Does the airbag also needed to be, at the hard winning wi de such strong acu upgrades, because of the front attack, arty, pd creeping with combined acu+army pushes? Or thats for t"o work not only with a anel, but also with a mouth during rapes?" Increasing energy cost for air exp? - Is it worth building air, problem? Scout,Radar, ok? Or, in the end, do not put a spam moment with 100-800 asfs as a meta and "Press S to win a dogfight." We increase the hp UEF of the destroyer, we do jamming for t3 Scouts, Gunships, we make the stations cheap and effective as hives, sparkies, we make a tactical nuke PUNCH everything. Let's make the build time for the titans 2-3 seconds slower in real life so that no one thinks that the faction's overbuff is going on.

• Ah, there is also a rework of the bubble shield for the coma, what? Will you make it like aeon? To make the commander generally look like BBС(or maybe as in good netorate eroges male) against Poor Cyb Stealthn 1k hp?

• Tactical nuke? Thats more about challenge and fun stuff then thing about gameplay. That should have rework maybe it would be good thing if that thing to x0.5 damage of tml rocket, but with a splash as strat or a bit increased. Instead of this, kinda useless thing for the teamgames and ladder, untill cyb having lazor, and sera with a gun damage. OH that guys upper talking about radius of the tactical nuke, holy shit, u are really going to use that stuff? At the moment when you can afford it, the opponent can already fuck you with 50 corsairs or 10 strats.

• In general, the mobility of the cybran faction has become somewhat unusable, playing the sea, it is difficult for you to counter t2 hovers with flaks without asking for engineers of another faction. Protect your ships in a t3 battle if you don’t have an advantage initially, or fight on equal terms where the opponent has an extra. hp due to shields, and you have a fucking stealth that you can wipe your ass with, because you can put 10 t1 engineers on t1 factory on an assist and spam t1 scouts and enemy will fuck your sweet babies big daddy with a big, long, sweet chocolate with white filling big black gun-muzzle (tempest with t2 shields, reference) or even 5 inch aeon battleships, again with shields. Also, any t1-t2 hover spam is better to counter with FUCKING CRUISERS, because of the distance and normal rate of fire. Fuck, SOMEONE IS BUILDING A CRUISER NOT AGAINST THE AIR OR VISIBILITY, BUT TO FUCK T1-T2 LAND UNITS WHICH CREEP LIKE EVIL ON HALLOWEEN.

• Nothing I can say about Sniper bots, they are pretty hm, good balanced? Fathers will take them (T1 bombers or mummy t2 arty's.)

• NUKE and Nuke-SUBS now for real u just need a bit more time, and mass waste on pgens, thats all about new patch.

• I'm waiting for a hate, and least of all I'm waiting for an explanation that the patch is really useful and balances the game, and especially makes units playable for only one faction.

Also, some points can be far-fetched here and I can be wrong about something, I understand this perfectly and agree with your views on the game. Rather, everything that has been said here has simply boiled over.

• CMON DUDE Give Jamming to ASF's it would be cool when 400 asfs will fight against 300 and will miss half of hits.
• OH CMON DUDE u Debuffin Cybran t3 torp, what sucks against bs's and t2 cruisers, and having only thing to do it's delay a time base crush.
  -TurretYawRange: 140 > 145 At least u made something to cybran. 5 pts of turnrate, god,thanks, lets SALEM crushing games happen, thats will change much things without navy maps. Or at least at their micro when the real state of winning about combination of torps, frigs micro, its just sandbox between fights againsta two destros. But with a real thing, thats turn rate not valuabe if enemy is not 3.3k rated at all welcomes. Thats all.

KILL ME.
Thanks again for doing something, maybe it's better than no one doing anything. Especially for free. But is there a better way to do this?

@espiranto Me no understand your English.

@melanol Try turn on screen

Don't troll the man for his English. An actually good player raised some valid points about the current balance.

Some of that stuff got me fucked up, Cybran is an autopick on any map where navy matters and is a strong pick on any air map. Navy is self evident but air has the combination of corsair (how is that the worst t2 bomber when it’s the most flexible in terms of air to ground utility) and stealth t3 air.

Only issue Cybran has in their roster rn is that every other faction has mobile shields. To rectify that, all they really need is a redesigned version of disruptor given to them while fitting Cybran aesthetic.

@xayo

What are you talking about? His english is totally legible, it's the extreme cybran bias that's hard to understand. If you can't cope with the fact that Cybran ACU and PD are intentionally weaker in combat for balance reasons then I don't think you have an involved understanding of the game balance. Who the hell thinks Corsairs are bad lmao.

Just make beetles not a meme (impossible) and make Soul Ripoff worth using

@zeldafanboy
UNDERSTANDABLE when the guy with Cyb playing on <1200 rated with impressive map list talking about my opinion with game balancing. Try once a time fight with ur creepy t1 inties and some corsairs fight over nothas with air, and Januses with air. Its kinda disgusting, some of this Combinations may crush started asfs producing manage when corsairs is having serious troubles with any of t1-t3 stage air fighting. So if talking about effectivity its shoting. Its targets are on the move, it can still be curbed by error, but it misses standing buildings and you have to turn around on the floor of the map to finish off a t2 generator or something if you use 2 corsairs and the unit is not tall enough this makes your attack fatal and unrealizable due to just a stupid spread on the target, which does not require any spread when firing. I am well aware of the pros and cons, but when out of 10 times sending 2 corsairs to kill t2 mex, t2 gen, they do not kill him in 1 volley, even though they have enough damage to kill - this is stupid. In the case of t2 seraph bombers, this does not happen. Why for normal use, do I need to use ground attack instead of right click and forget?Also, their turn rate is much worse than that of the Janus and the notes are also, try to turn it for fun to make a second salvo, as we can with the rest of the units, come on. Or microing it goodly at some of fights of 2 corsa x 5 inties. I would understand if you were a high rate. But it seems that at your level, the players still don’t understand how to respond when the opponent makes 10 minutes of corsairs under enemy reconnaissance and then shoots for 10 minutes at someone who does not dodge.I understand that the balance of corsairs is now based on the complication of sniping, but why should it miss and not kill the target, the taxi driver is drunk, or maybe the lgbt fem community does not allow working with clients too rudely. Let the accuracy remain as it is in this regard, I have not so much controversy as dissatisfaction with the work of pilots who should kill the target with damage in the first volley and not fly in two volleys trying to kill a standing building. But the air plan does not look convincing at all, and turning rate.

also to @FtXCommando the navy if fine, dont can say anything with a t1-t2 stage gamurs, except late stage and good aeons/uef realisation. As cybran is hard-counterable something like a shields. There kinda gameplay thing with ahead or behind and unit manage, like a 2 cyb destro owning 5 shields 1 aeon destro. But on a larger scale, this becomes a serious problem if the opponent knows about the countermeasure against t2 subs, or harms. Air stage is pretty same, there no difference for real between any of asf's armyes.

• Here is a purely male gameplay, where the strongest puts cancer. By need, there are variations between spamming an early large number of asfs and grid at point-blank range of resources, a rush strat and an assist for the asf of the plant, an economy with a balance in airgrid and the production of asfs without a minus, and a full t3 economy (with a slight increase in the grid) and after a full t3, a huge bp to recreate the grid along with an increase in even more economy for the grid again. Here the strength of a unit is no longer in quality, but in quantity. And stealth does not solve at all, rather it allows you to crank out some chips like turning on stealth and a sharp attack or a bite to attack. In technical terms, it makes no sense to talk about choosing cybran or any other faction for precisely t3 air.

• I would even say that for air t3 it is much more promising to take an aeon, in view of t3 gunships against air and ground attack, or switching to the czar, maybe washer. In the case of cybran, a beetle (I'll go eat shit, maybe it will at least from a fall cause damage that can be done with washer when the air is won).

My thoughts on the latest changes and upcoming changes:

• Jamming for T3 UEF Air - Offers chance for interesting tactics (previously I had to create 30 t1 air scouts for a similar effect which meant I've hardly ever done it), and happy the strat jamming is off by default (since at the lower ratings I play at it feels like a great way of making the enemy team aware you have a strat sooner than they otherwise would have)
• Sparky - ok with the stealth generator, but building all T1 factories feels too much
• Loyalist billy nuke change - I'd rather billy nuke was buffed rather than nerfing the loyalist's ability

Overall with the changes I feel bad for the non-UEF factions.

In terms of upcoming changes:

• Nuke missile vs silo costs - sounds good
• T3 arti E nerf - The main theme with E c osts is that air costs far more than ground, which is consistent with the T2 arti Mass to E cost. in my mind it feels like T3 arti should therefore not cost as much E (per mass cost) as an air experimental so I worry the E nerf will be too great
• Reworking UEF bubble shield - depends on how it turns out (could be good, as it could use a boost to usability)
• GC claws - sounds good, GC feels too OP vs T3 armies at the moment
• Loyalist buff - sounds good, it could use a small buff
• Kennel tweaks - depends on how far they go, I wouldnt want to see them reach mass per BP parity with a hive
• Soul ripper tweaks - not sure how the value over time will be reached - presumably by giving it a decent amount of HP regen which would fit with the Cybran theme, it could use some help, and I like mechanics that favour value over time (its one of hte reasons I really like the shield addition to the Czar) so sounds good
• Reducing crash damage of air experimentals - while a small reduction sounds ok it'd be nice for them to still be impactful
• Bulwark change - no view without seeing the detail (could be good or bad)
• Mini SACU rework - no view without seeing the detail (could be good or bad)
• Nerfing HARMs - if its going to be nerfed it'd be nice if ground firing it by battleships could be removed; would also be nice if T1-T2 torp launchers could get a small buff as I worry this could just lead to no torp launchers being usable
• Buffing higher tech engineers - sounds likely to be good and indirectly help performance by reducing the incentive to build T1 engis at T3 stage of the game
• Adjusting T2 static artillery - I hope this means a small buff rather than a nerf as they're a fairly niche unit
• Billy nuke adjustments - hopefully will be a small buff as this upgrade is hardly ever seen

Reworking T3 Engineers to be more BP Efficient will be amazing!
I 100% disagree with a HARMs unless unless you fix ground firing which makes harms the worst naval unit in the game.

Reworking Bulwarks would be a god sent and SACU rework even if mini would be great too

If the HARMs are getting nerfed, will they get HP regeneration with vet. status?

@espiranto

Invoking rating can augment an argument, but not replace it. You seem to be complaining about three things concerning the Corsair: it has bad AA, its rocket spray is inconsistent, and the turning radius is bad. The first thing is an intentional design decision, it's like complaining that the Janus is bad at sniping or that the Swift Wind can't attack ground. In exchange for being the only bomber that attacks in front of its flight path instead of dropping a bomb below itself, it has the worst AA. The second thing can sometimes lead to lost DPS when attacking a smaller target like an ACU but that's made up for by the fact that the random spread gives it decent utility vs large clumps of armies, more than the Notha. And attacking structures from my experience is totally fine. As for the last thing, I'm not actually opposed to giving them a tighter turning radius, but I think the Janus should have the best turning since it has a swing-wing design that changes its aerodynamics during a turn.

But that's just the Corsair. You were also offering a litany of balance complaints about the Cybran faction as a whole, like the fact that you have to choose between T2 and Gun, or that Cerberus is weak, or the fact that Cybran has no mobile shields, along with slow Mantis turret speed (use zig zag micro). Those are all really silly things to complain about, and in a vacuum I'm not opposed to buffing the Corsair or Making Loyalists Great Again but as a whole, it's very clearly a ranting response to a slew of UEF buffs. Cybran is not underpowered.

Really disagree on your late game air take. Restorer is solid as a comfy unit that allows you to scale an air win’s lead while continuously increasing your air to ground ability, but wailer and broadsword are great units regardless for being immediate dps dumps with massive hp. We don’t even need to go into the fact Cybran have the best strat.

I also absolutely do see a difference between asfs, the ability to stealth means that you can decide the first turn of engagement which, barring proper scaling, is the penultimate factor in deciding who wins an air fight. The only counter against it is proper spy plane screening ensuring enemy air cannot sneak up on you but that in turn creates weaknesses for cyb air to focus on. This is before even taking into account that if there is no spy plane coverage, cybran asfs can pop out of thin air and shoot your asfs while your asf did not have enough time to react and thus your air flies through them without doing any damage.

Does soul ripper suck? Sure, but Cybran still have the best strat and a broadsword equivalent t3 gunship. Finally, in a serious teamgame you don’t really want your air player to be responsible for washer/czar in current balance. Better to let some stagnant slot make it while air continues to secure their air win since the units cost nothing in terms of energy infrastructure. And for that security, Cybran is certainly one of the best.

@zeldafanboy said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Those are all really silly things to complain about, and in a vacuum I'm not opposed to buffing the Corsair or Making Loyalists Great Again but as a whole, it's very clearly a ranting response to a slew of UEF buffs. Cybran is not underpowered.

Ok mod uploaded with some ideas

@BulliedNoob I agree.

@zeldafanboy said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

@espiranto

Invoking rating can augment an argument, but not replace it.

I just want to note that pulling out the rating card is totally legit when you are replying to a post like this:

What are you talking about? His english is totally legible, it's the extreme cybran bias that's hard to understand. If you can't cope with the fact that Cybran ACU and PD are intentionally weaker in combat for balance reasons then I don't think you have an involved understanding of the game balance. Who the hell thinks Corsairs are bad lmao.

There's no argument here besides anecdote. "Corsairs aren't bad, just trust me". Higher rating players have stronger anecdotes when it comes to balance in the specific form of "in my experience x is good and y is bad".

As a sidenote you also insult pepsi for absolutely no reason. If it was up to me u would be warned/banned for that.