FAF Beta - Feedback
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That design of the unit will require it to cost the e that washer or czar costs. You can’t have people making a unit that baits air fights by sniping sams/defenses away and therefore risks an immediate and complete game loss while also costing basically zero infrastructure.
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It's kind of weird how fast balance swings when you introduce SAMs vs Air or how fast the balance swings when the SAMs Disappear vs Air ( in a certain area). Air can sometimes feel very oppressive in Teamgames, it's extremely different in 1v1s tho where Air is just a great support role and can offer an upper hand, but in Teamgames where one players can invest fully in Air. It can get oppressive with how easy it is to all in snipes and how losing air is just an instant game lost which can sometimes be frustrating.
Soul Ripper is too slow to be effective biggest buff for Soul Ripper would be a Movement Buff & Alpha Damage, would make it a quick ambush experimental (flying monkeylord basically)
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I might have missed it, but will sera battleship nukes get the same kind of cost increase as nuke subs and stationary nukes?
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For now, no.
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@tagada may I ask for your thought on why not increase the energy cost of nuke missiles? Wouldn't this be easier?
My first assumption was naval balance, but regarding the sera BS I'm not sure that the planned chances are healthier/better (without unplanned side effects).
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Oh, I indeed cant't read as I thought the missile cost was changed, not the sub/launcher itself..
Changing the sera BS cost to nerf its nukes wouldn't be a great idea, so good that it's not planned. -
Then I don't quite get the energy cost explanation though: "while the bigger energy cost increase makes it a lot harder to make a fast second nuke."
On the current balance it takes (roughly) 1 additional t3 pgen to build a nuke launcher in a reasonable amount of time and 2 t3 pgens to actually load the missile.
The proposed change of doubling the energy cost would make it so you need 2 t3 pgens for the entire process. While this means you need to build the 2nd pgen earlier, which is a slight nerf, this results in essentially no change to the total cost of launching your first or any subsequent nukes.
(the additional 3k mass increase does of course increase cost though)If the goal is to discourage building a second launcher, beyond the proposed 3k mass increase, further increasing the launcher's mass cost, or the energy cost for launcher (and missile) beyond the 2 pgens from the proposed changes would have a much bigger effect imo.
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T Tagada referenced this topic on
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Updated the changelog with the following new changes:
Jamming for T3 UEF Air
Redirection of Billy Nuke by Loyalists
More Sparky buffs
Fix for Aeon ACU Heavy Shield IconPossible upcoming changes:
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Further adjustment of nukes thanks to your feedback. Increasing the E cost of missiles and adjusting previous changes
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Nerfing the E cost of the T3 artillery in line with adjustments made to Nukes and Air T4s
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Reworking the bubble shield of UEF ACU
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Bringing back the strength of GC's claws to a normal level
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Buffing the Loyalist's ability
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More tweaks for kennels
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Soul Ripper tweaks to make it a cheaper experimental with more focus on value over time
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Reducing the Crash Damage of Air experimentals
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Small rework of the Bulwark to emphasize its use on the T2 rather the T3 stage
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Mini SACU Rework
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Nerfing the HARMS
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Buffing Higher Tech engineers by making them more BP efficient
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Adjusting T2 static Artillery
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Possible Billy Nuke adjustments
Stay tuned and thank you for all of the feedback so far.
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@blodir said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Looks like an overnerf
nothing is an overnerf to what snipers currently are
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T3 UEF Air
Added jamming for Spy Planes and Strategic BombersAllow Sparkies to build T1 factories
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Happy now?
Or do I need to give UEF Frigs hover ability as well? -
Time to main uef i guess
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@tagada said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Happy now?
Or do I need to give UEF Frigs hover ability as well?Looks good, your list of possible changes looks great as well, hope you guys have the time and endurance for achieving some of that changes as well.
I have the impression that in this list and the current change log most points of the community are included. So thanks for your work so far and being here on display
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@unknow said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Time to main uef i guess
Yes. As basicly all changes can be summarised: " make UEF much stronger, and other nations/factions weaker..."
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The only big nerfs in this patch are nukes and air t4s?
Snipers and bot nerf basically cancel out the OP units from each faction on t3 stage and asylum is stupid for being a way higher utility parashield that costs half the E.
The buffs to UEF units either buff units that are a mistake to make (valiant, kennel) or give UEF the ability to play in a unique way from other factions (sparky, jamming)
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My thoughts:
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Asylum (Aeon T2 mobile shield)
Good change but my "Aeon main" heart cries. -
Titan and Loyalist
Good change.
Titans have been oppressive since their buff. Shame this change also affects Loyalist. Loyalists need some TLC. -
Sniper bots
Problematic change.
They already feel like they fall out of mobile shields too easily and die to suicide T1 bombers. Increasing their price simply hurts that more. Perhaps a minor HP increase to cater to the average joe? Still the proposed change will stop snowballs. -
Air Experimentals
Good change.
The energy cost increases should help normalise them in the air game. -
Valiant (UEF Destroyer)
Bad change.
Yes, the Valiant is jokingly "hot garbage" compared to its factional counterparts. This is offset by the Neptune and its ability to crush T1 and T2. Buff the Valiant and the UEF navy will be OP. -
T3 UEF Air
Controversial change.
What do Seraphim and Aeon get? Cybran = Stealth. UEF = Jamming. What about the others?
Jamming in ASF battles? A very bold idea.
Energy cost for Jamming on the Ambassador (UEF T3 bomber) should equal the Stealth cost of the Revenant (Cybran T3 bomber). 150 E/s. -
Salem
Good change.
All other LABs have 360 degrees attack, so this makes the Salem suck less at that. However, it's still primarily a scout. -
Sparky
Mixed change.
Intel structures good, factory bad. Why not just give the Sparky access to a full blueprint if you are giving it access to the factory? How to over buff a unit right here.
Most powerful backline drops in the game. Mandatory UEF for proxy firebases. -
Kennels
Mostly bad change.
Give the drones a leash range if you want to pull them in line with hives. This cost reduction is too strong without a leash. While you're there, give the Novax a leash range of 825 (same as T3 arty). -
Nukes (silos and subs)
Mixed thoughts.
Probably good? Never found nukes oppressive to begin with since RAS bois exist. Nerf RAS, then think about a nuke silo nerf. Nuke subs however can use the nerf. -
Mechanics
ACU and SACU changes good.
Loyalist change bad.
Loyalists are already pathetic as is. This change would be fine if accompanied by a range increase to their redirect laser.
Afterthoughts.
Give the Uashavoh (Sera T2 destroyer) a Turret Yaw increase. This unit is supposed to be heavily microed and the Yaw hinders this.
Instead of an 11% HP increase for the Valiant, give it a move speed buff to enhance its "skirmishing" ability. Adds micro and skill cap to the unit.
Snipers. A nerf for them would be to halve all their current stats, including DPS and Mass cost. Everything but physics, range and intel. They wouldn't fit under shields anymore if amassed. Very big nerf. Syke.
Emissary. The worst T3 arty. Buff projectile speed. 120 -> 150. Problem solved. Niche role. Rapid and accurate fringe target destruction. Still trash at base killing. -
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I don't get why the Loyalist lost the ability to redirect Billy nukes.
Moments like this are what make Supcom's trajectory based projectile simulation awesome
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@zeldafanboy said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
I don't get why the Loyalist lost the ability to redirect Billy nukes.
It’s as though you add a 5% chance that Cybran laser kills your ACU if you cause a chain pgen explosion.
You’re paying half a million e in the missile + upgrade and risk getting a missile you can’t interact with sent back to you (which you paid for).
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Asylum - Makes sense, it's T2 and can hover.
Titan/Loyalist - This will play out strangely, the Loyalist probably more negatively impacted. If you can't crank out as many as quickly, why not a brick?
Sniper bots - I feel like this is too much too fast, I can see some of the changes being reversed, likely the mass cost, the build time is good.
Ahwassa - With the energy increase, I'm not sure the AoE shrink is needed. The additional infrastructure needed to afford the power requirements seems like a big hit.
Czar - I'm not sure how this will play out.
Valiant - I like it, UEF units tend to have more HP. It'll be the Pillar of Destroyers, if that makes sense. Not great DPS, high HP, sticks around for a long time to "Tar pit" the enemy.
Salem - It seems like such a small change, not sure what will happen.
Sparky - I like the idea of stealth fields and radar, I don't like T1 factory ability.
Kennel/drone - solid change.
Nukes - Seems fair, once someone has one, if they're dug in hard enough it's hard to stop them.
Nuke Subs - Good, follows suit.
Loyalist and Billy nukes - I suppose this is fair, the idea of a Loyalist tossing a billy back is funny though.
UEF T3 air jamming - Make it cost as much as Cybran stealth for it's Energy cost.With cybran and UEF having stealth and jamming, what of Aeon and Seraphim? I suggest increasing the Omni radius of the Aeon T3 spy plane, and adding that temporary vision to the Seraphim T3 spy planes, maybe a bigger vision radius after it crashes.
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Ok just make it able to be targeted by TMD on return if possible. It's a small tactical missile, and loyalists can deflect all tac missiles no matter how expensive or destructive
