Engineer Always-reclaim
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@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
The OP specifically doesn't want attack move:
4# engi will not move to far in enemy territory!You are 100% wrong. The main complaint is the mundane micro of issuing the order. You can very obviously prevent engies from going "too far into enemy territory" by not setting the reclaim order "too far into enemy territory." Further, this is why I said to issue the attack move directly underneath the engi.
@ghnaf said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
Yes, i know attacke-move and i use it ofc. It´s just about less clicks in many situations.
@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
The alternative is to just attack move an engineer. That way you control what happens. And it is just two clicks.
Ok, multiply two clicks times many different engis or groups of engis, times many times per game. Spoiler alert, it's much larger than two.
@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
Then come back and tell us how it worked out while the engineers were reclaiming that T2 PD you wanted to rebuild.
Every single time I see someone do this I cringe because the build time is almost never as important as the mass forgone. You gain HALF the mass and build time, while losing the 80% mass reclaim value. I actively and intentionally reclaim dead t2 pd before rebuilding them, so I would love this feature.
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@archsimkat godlike lmao
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But attack move is really only one click with hotkeys. By just holding alt and then clicking, it takes the same effort as placing a move order. It is not taking any extra time, and is arguably a better and more effective way to reclaim.
IMO there is no benefit for a player having this feature. Any role it can fill is already done better and more efficiently by an existing option, and furthermore, engineers ideally should not be idle in the first place as that is a waste of build-power.
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@corvathranoob said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
You are 100% wrong. The main complaint is the mundane micro of issuing the order. You can very obviously prevent engies from going "too far into enemy territory" by not setting the reclaim order "too far into enemy territory." Further, this is why I said to issue the attack move directly underneath the engi.
I've yet to meet the attack move order that doesn't take my engineers across the map for some odd reason - with the exception of attack move orders from a factory.
@corvathranoob said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
Ok, multiply two clicks times many different engis or groups of engis, times many times per game. Spoiler alert, it's much larger than two.
You're right: it is probably three: you want to move them to the reclaim field first. And if you use any hotkeys (I'd recommend trying that out) then it is two again.
@hlpstpbroimstuck said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
I play with that mod and occasionally get banned for it, and find it very convinient
I wasn't aware there was a mod that did this already
, is it a UI mod or a sim mod? Because you can't get banned for a sim mod. -
Jip try putting the attack move where you want them to stand, works great for me.
I think the banned ui mod is a auto clicker
If you want to get the effect that the op is wanting, every once in awhile hot idle engie hot key then attack move into your base
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Adding something like this would become another shitfest where everyone either complains it’s unbalanced or great as they have 10 APM
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@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
You're right: it is probably three: you want to move them to the reclaim field first. And if you use any hotkeys (I'd recommend trying that out) then it is two again.
Yeah, now it's obvious you're just trolling. Thanks.
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I wasn't.
I'm just not going to implement a feature that you're not able to proof to me adds any value over playing the game as it is.
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@corvathranoob It is RTS game, not arcade kid sandbox. Manual reclaim is part of game, and game developers already made tools for making it less stressful. Attack, patrol. No one requires from you hard manual reclaim. There is players with less than 30 APM and even they can do some reclaim with patrol and attack. Do you know how much it is? And again, as said before, you can make one, or search that is already exists, and use it as you want in unranked games. You are just trying to make noise.
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You are trying to argue against the bad performance of this mod, well, do it, show us how it will improve the faf in way of gameplay and perfomance. I need results, not empty words
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watch your language,@CorvathraNoob
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@corvathranoob said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
@jip Jip, I cannot believe you are so stupid you cannot understand my argument and were not purely trolling. I literally explained the whole argument. It saves you mindless clicks MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. Your response is obviously completely disingenuous. It's not that you didn't fully think through all the implications of my reasoning, I laid it all out for you and you intentionally disregarded it..."UH, hotkey then TWO clicks!!!" Obvious trolling.
I cannot believe you honestly do not see "any" value to this. Multiple people, including Zlo, explained why this is a quality of life feature that saves some boring, mindless clicks. That's value.
For comparison, FAF implemented the feature to ring t2 mexes with storages with a right click. How much does that save people? A single click to get to the hotbuild template. Still implemented, because obviously you perform this task multiple times during a game. It's the exact same logic, but that change has EVEN LESS value than this one.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
Your response is insulting.
You're asking me to:
- Take a share of my time to implement your feature.
- Take a share of my future time to maintain your feature.
And all I have of you is a five minute message. Then another five minute message. And then an insulting message.
As Eternal states, as I've stated - make a sim mod that does what you want. If you manage to make the community enjoy that sim mod so much that they're willing to play unranked for a few weeks then we can talk - before that, I'm not lifting a finger for a feature that I have not been convinced of its value.
To give you an idea of what I'm doing with my time instead, I work on performance and bug fixes. Just look at the changelog on Github. And recently I'm experimenting with @CaptainKlutz to modernize the graphics of the game by improving the shaders. Here, take a look at this:
Pretty right - and this is just the first draft.
A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned
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@jip Amazing
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The hard part about reclaiming stuff is moving the engineers to where the reclaim is, not pressing the attack move button once they get there. This thread is really dumb and you guys should stop adding to it.
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I am generally in favor of automating the game, I want to be a general not a sergeant. But I feel this would not be a good option. It seems good at a glance, more resources and making your engineers do stuff. However, this would have something taken from the player in a possibly detrimental way, it robs the player of an interesting decision.
Others have pointed out that depending on the situation, you might not want to reclaim, or you might not want the reclaim available. When and what to reclaim are important decisions. Others have mentioned rebuilding wrecks, overflowing mass, or grabbing useless reclaim as things that could make this detrimental. So, having some sort of toggle to make them idle reclaim sounds nice, but that is generally accomplished by patrolling or better yet attack-moving the ground, (better as they stop and return to an idle state when the reclaim is gone). There are pathfinding annoyances to those options, so some order to reclaim in range without moving, like a factory reclaim order, would be cool. So I look forward to checking out your mod.
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@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
You're asking me to:
Take a share of my time to implement your feature.
Take a share of my future time to maintain your feature.It's not mine. I was considering how it might be helpful for lower skill players and providing some pros and cons on their behalf. Just read my first post:
@corvathranoob said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
So I don't really have an opinion whether it's a good idea to do this or not, but don't think it matters much anyway because it is pretty easy to attack move some engies instead so this gives very little advantage or help to noobs anyway.
@jip said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
Your response is insulting.
@rezy-noob said in Engineer Always-reclaim:
watch your language,@CorvathraNoob
I think it is more insulting to be trolled when you're trying to contribute to the conversation and bring up points of view that other people may not have considered, than anything I said.
I know English is not everyone's first language here, so I will clarify what I said.
I did NOT say Jip was stupid. I said I DIDN'T think he was because we both clearly knew the proposed change would save more than two clicks a game. So, since he was NOT stupid, he must have been trolling.
I chose my words very carefully to show how egregious his derisive and contemptuous response to my argument was. I would say "please read my words more carefully next time," but the point is moot because I won't be contributing any more thoughts because I'm done with being trolled and insulted.
