The reason why Cybran is weak on land.
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Hey people.
I am not going to pretend that I know everything about how the other factions work, or how they should function or that they may not have the same problems in other areas. I am writing this from the perspective of a 1v1 Cybran player’s standpoint and this is only my opinion.The reason I make this is because I am convinced that there is too large of a weakness with Cybran during the T2 land stage. Now, when I say t2 land, I do not specifically just mean the t2 land units, but also t2 pd, a com that is weak and the t1 arty mixed in with the t2 units being bad. All these factors combined make for a weakness that is greater than the sum of its parts and has a knock-on effect in to the later stages of a match.
Regarding faction diversity, I feel a distinction should be made between differences in functionality, and a unit simply being bad. What I mean by functionality is that equivalent units from different factions have different purposes such as t1 arty having better functionality against buildings or against units. Fervors are designed to kill structures, other arty are better against armies. UEF T2 pd deal aoe damage while Sera T2 pd deal higher single target damage. One unit may be more effective in cost per damage, another has better cost per hp. Weaknesses are a unit’s lack of functionality vs something else, such as fervors having no AOE, so worse against moving targets. Fervors are not bad; they just have a more focused role.
A unit being garbage should not be justified under the term faction diversity, unless that faction has a better replacement for its function. Medusa is a garbage unit. As a unit it is worse in class at any given role at the same cost as other t1 arty. Cerberus turret is the worst in class at its role. It has the lowest dps per mass by a very big margin. This makes it overpriced and to be honest, a bad investment. The Cybran ACU is weak. Combined, all of these are what makes this faction rather lackluster on the majority of land maps. To be honest, I like the cybran t2 units. There just isn’t a good t1 arty to support them in killing structures.
The other problem with the medusa is drop play. Combine the lower capacity of the transports with low dps from the t1 arty, and you have another low effectiveness per investment situation. The t2 transport costs the same as other factions, but with no real advantage.Thanx for reading.
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@chenbro101 Medusa is Imo the best arty in later stages of the game. The combination of high fireing randomness, aoe, stunn and low costmakes it spammable and hard to dodge with a decently sized army. But yeah the t2 stage feels weak. unless you have your hoplite micro on point and are able to abuse the superior speed of a hoplite/stealth army.
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Medusa are very strong in mid-late t2 stage because they do fair amount of damage as well as stun units which allows your t2 army to either catch up to units like Ilshavohs or kite away from units like obsidians. You have mobile stealth which allows your rhino armies to get in range easier as well as your hoplite hit squad to shoot from out of range of enemy units. Your ACU is weaker but it has stealth which is very cheap yet effective upgrade due to how vision works in FA.
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Thanx for the replies.
@tagada. I would argue that most units with high ranged do fair amount of damage when massed. The question is then what is the cost of the unit compared to its damage output, and what the opponent can field with the same investment. Medusas cost the same as lobos but have significantly lower dps overall. To be fair, maybe calling them garbage was going to far. However, I do think that the lack of dps hurts in a lot of situations and exacerbates the weakness of the acu and t2 pd. If a UEF chadcom pushes you, what would you use as a cybran to compensate for those weaknesses? It's not a rhetorical question by the way. I would like to know from you as you are a better player. -
I would use the mobile stealth fields. They are hard to counter when a t3 radar is unavailable as it requires constant scouting.
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Brick rush is the new harb rush. Just skip the bad units and go straight to the good ones. Or just spam mantis, i heard it's pretty great.
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With cybran your weakness is the lack of of mid game rambo ACU so don't fight ACU vs ACU. In 1vs1 once you get ahead which you should as cybran during t1 stage you can pick your fights and you should fight where enemy acu isn't. You can use your high speed t1 units and decent speed t2 units as well as stealth. Your t2 air also allows you to threaten enemy acu with Corsairs so he would need to wait for quite a few flaks and shields before he can go all rambo and push through mid. Also once again, medusa are good, really good vs units once you hit mid game, they are borderline broken on some maps.
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@auricocorico I expected you to say something like "sad Aeon noises"
I was under the impression that Aeon T2 land was notably meh and that you would point this out.
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Aeon t2 land is good, they got a mobile shield
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One other thing I forgot to mention is that the arty damage is also relevant to damage against the com.
So how about the t2 cerb turret? For it to be as mass efficient in damage as a sera pd, it would cost 350 mass down from 480. Thats a massive difference! The com weakness combined with this can make it hard to stop a 2t guncom from another faction.Note: I used the dps listed in the unit section of the client.
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Aeon T2 land was garbage few years ago ( aeons ago ... :D) but now i'd argue it's about 2nd best behind UEF. Cybran feels last for all reasons said above.
This being said, cybran t2 unit are not "trash" and unusable, they are just slighly worse.
Yea, if you play braindead into your faction's weaknesses, you might lose. Just don't build cerberus turrets in order to "counter" the ennemy UEF player making triads. Don't try to 1v1 head first a gun+nano or a chrono ACU at the t2 stage. Just play around your strenght, and be smart (hey isn't it the theme of cybran ?).
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@auricocorico
I still don't understand how I am then supposed to stop said com from pushing into a base and taking it. I could try and mirror that damage on his side of the map, but sometimes it is not viable to do so. Playing around your strengths and being smart is needed for any faction, not just Cybran.Regarding Aeon, maybe I will try out the faction a bit. I think I played like 2 games with it in the past.
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If your getting pd creeped with triads, use mml
If it's a gun com, use tickle guns
It's rock paper scissors, not Rick crushes all
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You stop it by not getting into that position in the first place. What you’re saying is a line of thinking myself and most other people fall into, not just in FAF but in general. You’re in a situation and it feels bad because you can’t counter or deal with that situation well. You think “well if this is happening, how do I counter it?” Your mistake happened before that situation started. What you should be asking is “how can I not get into this situation in the first place.” That’s not helpful for when you’re already in that position, but it’s helpful for not getting in that position in the first place in the future.
So how do you avoid another faction doing a gun com or pd creep into your base as Cybran? Well PD creep has an easy and direct counter, especially as Cybran. Make MML. Cybran MMLs are hard to counter for any faction other than Aeon because the missiles split after being hit once.
The gun com one is more interesting because it goes back to my previous point about avoiding the situation in the first place. If you’re constantly raiding and destabilizing your opponent it’s going to be much harder for them to amass a large enough force for them to feel comfortable pushing you hard. You can constantly hold the threat of Corsair snipe over them keeping them from wanting to push in too far with their com. Force them to leave their com more exposed with stealth raids using a mobile stealth field, a rhino or two, and a couple Medusas. They have to move either their com or some units to intercept or you can do a lot of dmg if you handle those raiding groups well. Either way it slows them down and keeps them on the defensive, which is fundamentally what you want as any faction, but especially as Cybran. As Cybran you also have the best tools to do that with. Stealth, fast t1 tanks, and good anti unit t1 arty is a nice combo for raiding at virtually all stages of the game.
