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Yesterday the 20th of March, 2021 we held the inaugural meeting for the FAF Association to be registered in Denmark.
The statutes as they were agreed can be found here.
I was picked for president of the board and will perform these administrative tasks during the term, and ideally near future:
With this in place the structural framework for FAF as an organisation should be in place in a manner that is future-proof.
/Sheeo
Per the last update on the association as well as by request from community members to make this list public; here is the list of the current board members of the association:
Brutus5000 is the elected treasurer.
As the elected president I represent the board and any questions, issues or other concerns should be directed at me.
If the concerns are regarding myself or otherwise warrants asking another board member; please with priority ask Brutus5000 and avoid directly contacting other board members.
Hey everyone, since the last update here a few things have happened regarding the association.
On the 30th of May we had a board meeting where we started out by making ground rules for how the board itself can function efficiently, while still respecting the time constraints of the voluntary members.
Practically this means the board can always make a decision within at most 2 weeks, without requiring a call.
On request from multiple community members, we also decided to publish the list of board members.
I updated the board internally on the status of our funding and new bank setup. The treasurer and a few volunteer board members are working on a budget proposal for 2021. More to come on this as soon as that's ready.
When the association was formed, it was the intention that the Council of Setons would keep functioning as it has been throughout and changing the structure of it was not a part of the plan.
We did however decide to dissolve the position of the Administrative Councilor, given that the Board now oversees these responsibilities.
A further rethink of the rest of the Council is in progress, and we would like to hear thoughts from the community about it.
As for the recent resignation of the promotional councilor, we're sad to see him go and I'd like to extend a huge thank you to Nine2 for all his contributions and work on FAF.
@furyritchie will undertake the responsibilities in the meantime while a long term solution is worked out.
If you haven't already joined the association and would like to know more about it, here's the post summarizing the general assembly.
Anyone sympathetic to the objectives of FAF can join and we encourage you to do so if you have an interest in the future of FAF. There's a channel on our discord where you can ask for the required approval.
To be frank this is just unacceptable way of managing an organization.
I also entirely agree with this point. I've not acted strongly enough in time and instead tried avoiding dealing properly with this for too long, which has left us here.
@ftxcommando said in Council of Setons EXPOSED - Part 1:
Sheeo was driven out of the council chat because: A) He says his role is obsolete and so he has no reason to be there, Admin Councillor = President of the Board for all intended purposes. B) There were rules made for a code of conduct in the Council chat. It said Sheeo could remove anyone that breaks the rules. These rules included things like making disparaging remarks and lying. Sheeo did both and I don't mind having the conversation about how he did both. So I said I would accept the code so long as we have a way to also apply it to Sheeo. But since Sheeo said he was leaving the Council chambers it was fine. Then he said I crossed the "intentionally trolling" part of the code as far as he was concerned by he didn't take action and isntead just left.
Sheeo was driven out of the council chat because:
A) He says his role is obsolete and so he has no reason to be there, Admin Councillor = President of the Board for all intended purposes.
B) There were rules made for a code of conduct in the Council chat. It said Sheeo could remove anyone that breaks the rules. These rules included things like making disparaging remarks and lying. Sheeo did both and I don't mind having the conversation about how he did both.
So I said I would accept the code so long as we have a way to also apply it to Sheeo. But since Sheeo said he was leaving the Council chambers it was fine. Then he said I crossed the "intentionally trolling" part of the code as far as he was concerned by he didn't take action and isntead just left.
This is so incredibly misleading. Let's get the facts straight here.
There's no point in the admin councillor position any more indeed; that doesn't mean the board shouldn't have representation or be present in the council chat. But you have, almost single-handedly, made that impossible with your constant toxicity throughout the year.
I introduced those rules more or less only because of your behavior. What you're doing right now is very much the same; misrepresenting facts and lying to make your perspective seem better; and constantly disparaging and attacking others personally.
The very moment you were added back in the council chat you immediately continued your behavior and broke the rules. Instead of enforcing them unilaterally I left it up to the rest of the councillors.
I also do agree with Thomas - I highly doubt FTX’s periodic bouts of toxicity has much if any relevancy when it comes to player retention for newbs. The game’s steep learning curve and the lack of friendliness to newbs getting games and just getting kicked from lobbies are a much bigger issue for newbs, both of which there are initiatives to address.
I'm inclined to agree with this; I don't think players are scared off from playing the game because of toxicity.
The people who go on to contribute, and spend their time discussing with others, making content, writing code etc.; they are driven away. It's a lot to task of people to voluntarily help out with a project; it's an even taller order to expect them to keep on going while they're being treated like shit for helping out.
Some of the best people we've had around in this community left because of toxicity in the past.
@blackheart said in Council of Setons EXPOSED - Part 1:
@Sheeo Nobody is interested in the 2021 patreon data (that one will obviously be "correct"). We are talking about the years roughly 2017-2020, and you know perfectly well that we are, no need to play dumb or divert attention to "ill release 2021 data". Since you have surely separated faf patreon and private money and therefore directed the patreon to not-your-main bank account (...surely?), this shouldnt take you more than a couple minutes in the balance history of that account.
The tax authorities don't care what account i put money into.
Before 2020 the income was negligible and post-tax barely accounted for the server costs. In 2020 that changed and we now have $2800 in the patreon awaiting payout tax-free because we have a legal structure to support it.
The reason this is even demanded is that the patreon has been chilling at a solid 300-500 bucks a month (as of writing, 588) for a long time, while the server + tourneys should not remotely use it all up (if it does, sad, but we would like to see the facts). From what I have heard about server costs & the tourney contributions from official FAF, it appears that there should be thousands saved up.
Responded above.
Full accounts again to be made up by the elected treasurer. You could do well by showing up and engaging yourself as well, you're more than welcome.
@turinturambar said in Council of Setons EXPOSED - Part 1:
Yet in the statutes it sais: "The Board is responsible for managing day to day business."
Yeah wow, this is an good question and I fully understand the confusion.
In the statutes "day to day" means something different from what I've been arguing in this thread.
It means anything not related to the legal structure of the association and how it conducts itself formally. That is; anything that isn't expected by it from authorities.
Not what is expected from it by players or somebody wanting aurora to shoot further.
I hope this is clear.
Since I didnt follow all discussions regarding the board closely I likely missed information regarding this, but currently these two statements are contradicting. If the board is not responsible for managing daily affairs who is (in the association)?
The board is. Just not by the definition of the how things currently "operate" in FAF.
If the board is responsible for managing daily affairs I would like to know what these "daily affirs" entail. neither the faf statutes, nor the fewforum posts regarding the faf assiciation give me any clear idea about it. The only thing I found was this https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1228/faf-association-preliminary-meeting , where it was stated that "Being a Board member gives you no additional privileges regarding moderation, deciding FAF operations, making balance changes, or anything of the sort. The central role of the Board and the association in turn is meant to provide a system of accountability for the financial aspects of FAF."
Yes, the notion here is correct. You do not get to decide the aurora shooting distance by being a member of the association.
You get a part of the overall responsibility of deciding who represents FAF; and if you're a part of the board, a say in some particular high level issues. No aurora shooting distance will ever come up here.
It would help me a lot if you could provide a clear overview of what tasks and responsibilities the association/board is currently supposed to get/have (or allready has) and how they are supposed to interact/cooperate (even if not explicitly stated in the statutes) with the current faf management (especially details regarding deciding what events will happen on faf, how they are organised etc.) to get a proper idea of what the current situation is (which ideally could also get added to the faf association forum topic).
Axel made a response above and he's entirely correct.
Until such time that the IP of FAF has been formally transferred to the association; it carries no further weight or responsibility than that which I'm capable of giving it.
But ultimately think of it as the point where the buck stops. If there's any disagreement or if there are any important things to be discussed in FAF; this is the body that now decides it.
Previous it was a set of private individuals.
I'm generally passive for the time being, just staying in the background making sure things don't run far off course.
What sort of announcements or signs of life from me were you looking for?
Ok, FtX is mean. Do you have any other points as well, or is this some last ditch attempt to bad PR him? Wonder why he is mean? Maybe because: There is a guy running the show here who is perma-afk and who has failed to supply what he demands of FtX for the FAFlive channel, which FtX already supplied (financial overview and a sheet detailing where the FAF patreon money goes, for the past years). If you do the math, there should be a lot of money, and in best case it has been mismanaged, in worst case - draw your own conclusions.
Ok, FtX is mean. Do you have any other points as well, or is this some last ditch attempt to bad PR him?
Wonder why he is mean?
Maybe because:
I assume you’re referring to me here? FtX has yet to supply the intended payout list for the FAFlive channel.
I have supplied the information I can give about the patreon funds to those who have asked including those who attended the association meeting.
Sometime later this year, as promised in the announcement, the full accounts and details are to be posted for the 2021 year and going forward.
I suggest you draw conclusions based on facts Instead of hearsay.
There is in general complete apathy and 0 will from your end to move matters forward, its natural to get annoyed when your attempts to do something get locked by afk people who arent willing to do more than set up 1 meeting per 6 months
Again, are you referring to me?
I have spent more than 40 hours this year just responding to toxic spam. I have done several voice calls and invited those who want.
I might appear AFK to you because you don’t see my communications (you’re not in zulip and most communication here goes on in private).
But it’s also exactly the kind of the toxic narrative invented by the persons referred to here.
If you and your buddy big S wouldnt hide behind closed doors and also try to work on stuff more than 1 talk per half year FtX toxcity would disappear (yes yes, Ftx is impossible to work with, etc. - because he actually works).
I’m not hiding anywhere. FtX was invited to participate and work things out and has on countless occasions caused the conversation to utterly derode into toxicity.
@azmodeu said in FAF CLIENT ALWAYS AS ADMIN:
I Disabled UAC years ago XD
This is a fairly important security feature of Windows and you should not be using your operating system in this way unless you know very well what you're doing.
@jip said in Annual Tournament Proposal in Reply to Swkoll:
Say we do stick with making funds available for them. This would involve spending money. I think this is something the association should decide on whether they find this desirable. As, if I understood correct, they in the end determine how the funds of the association are spent. @Sheeo could you shed light on this?
Correct.
A budget proposal is being worked on and will be announced when it's ready— I don't have a timeline but I know Swkoll is working on it and is open for input.
@keyser said in Association Board:
I heard Icedreamer have also a specific role. Is it true and in this case what is it ?
IceDreamer was selected as deputy auditor and will review the accounts presented at the next General Meeting along with the other auditor.
@ftxcommando said in Association Board:
To clarify, does that mean I as a hypothetical individual can or cannot contact other Board members about joining the Association?
Nobody can prevent you from reaching out to any of the board members.
We ask that it is avoided in order to keep the burden of communication on as few individuals as possible, and to make sure things aren't redundantly processed by multiple people.
"No aurora shooting distance will ever come up here" Wrong. You cannot guarantee that whatsoever. The only restriction on Board activity is gross and deliberate negligence.
"No aurora shooting distance will ever come up here"
Wrong. You cannot guarantee that whatsoever. The only restriction on Board activity is gross and deliberate negligence.
So, hypothetically, because somebody could bring up aurora firing distance in a board meeting; you're going to halt this entire process that I've been working on for the whole year.
Lead me to believe for one second this has nothing to do with your personal motives once again.
What you mean is "I will try to the best of my ability as President to stop these things from happening"
Yeah that's what I mean.
I also mean I did my best to write the statutes to prevent that kind of hypothetical evil from happening in the future.
Your suggestion is still, as far as I understand, to keep the "powers" with me because somehow I'm permanently AFK and therefore that's OK.
Do you have a better suggestion outside of the board and the association binding themselves to responding to your personal wishes?
@biass said in Council of Setons EXPOSED - Part 1:
Just quickly though for sheeo: The election was supposed to be yearly and you know this well No? I had to call for an election for MnM after a ~2 year office. No yearly election was done for player councilor before FtX. Nine2 was elected to promotions now a little over a year ago, shall we call an election?
Just quickly though for sheeo:
The election was supposed to be yearly and you know this well
No? I had to call for an election for MnM after a ~2 year office. No yearly election was done for player councilor before FtX. Nine2 was elected to promotions now a little over a year ago, shall we call an election?
Yes; I think we should. But it's a bit much to do more of them at the same time. Let's get over the PC election first, shall we?
That being said; I want to reconsider the whole council structure as well-- before you interject and insert your narrative that I want to do this to get rid of FtX let me just preempt you there and say no. The council has been dysfunctional overall for a long time and it's time to look at how to improve it generally. I trust the board to be able to come up with a solution; which most likely involves going out and asking the community openly again. Some players have, completely on their own, come up with suggestions for how to restructure the leadership.
Not just "anyone" can join; they need to be proven sympathetic to the objectives defined in the statutes Would you like to explain how you audited the first wave of members in order to prove them as sympathtic? Did you ask them to which they just said yes? Saying they need to agree to some vague pledge means nothing of any actual value.
Not just "anyone" can join; they need to be proven sympathetic to the objectives defined in the statutes
Would you like to explain how you audited the first wave of members in order to prove them as sympathtic? Did you ask them to which they just said yes? Saying they need to agree to some vague pledge means nothing of any actual value.
Okay, that's your opinion and I respect that. How do you suggest we change that?
I don't know of any other association where you have to do anything further than pass a simple acceptance test of peers from the association as well as commit yourself sympathetic to the statutes.
What would be necessary in such a more thorough audit?
We are all ears on positive, sensible and well founded suggestions on this. There was a 3 week period where you could suggest changes to the statutes and you have been among the closest people to the inception of the association.
What further are you suggesting? I'm suggesting you implement the revision I posted.
What further are you suggesting?
I'm suggesting you implement the revision I posted.
In the statutes? You're welcome to suggest this formally to the board; as I have told you before.
The issue is this takes a General Assembly to adopt into the statutes; this can at the earliest happen with 3 weeks notice and another extraordinary GA or next year. If you want it that bad go right ahead.
As for the pledge; I explained why the board should not and cannot make any such dedicated pledge to mutually work with the council in my earlier responses to FtX. I have also explained it in private to you before.
You were asked to explicitly provide your own input and suggestion as to this code of conduct: That hasn't happened. "if you want to speed it up, why don't you to come up with a proposal for the code of conduct yourself?" is the exact quote. I don't think these two are the same. You're asking me to make it for you.
You were asked to explicitly provide your own input and suggestion as to this code of conduct: That hasn't happened.
"if you want to speed it up, why don't you to come up with a proposal for the code of conduct yourself?" is the exact quote. I don't think these two are the same. You're asking me to make it for you.
Yes. I don't think it's a priority and you seem to think it is. So please go ahead and make it.
24 days I asked the other board members for input as well, after you mentioned it.
Outside of filling in your pre-made narrative what is your point here? It's awfully convenient than you can pluck sections of chat to suit your conclusions. On a side note; please refrain from sharing the private council chat without the permission of the other councillors. Just because you have no respect for confidentiality does not mean you have the right to impose that onto the rest of the councillors. Damn dude, did you read the original post? Or open the document?
Outside of filling in your pre-made narrative what is your point here? It's awfully convenient than you can pluck sections of chat to suit your conclusions. On a side note; please refrain from sharing the private council chat without the permission of the other councillors. Just because you have no respect for confidentiality does not mean you have the right to impose that onto the rest of the councillors.
Damn dude, did you read the original post? Or open the document?
Yes, I did.
The statutes are public and you know it. I'm asking people if they know what they are.
The statutes are public and you know it.
I'm asking people if they know what they are.
It was announced in the forum post I linked.
I'm not even going to bother replying to this backwards attempt to gaslight me into thinking i'm doing this for my own "power". So I can continue to moderate the vaults or something? What a joke it is that this baseless phrase was even mentioned. Your suggested changes are to the statutes, not any "pledges". The statutes were accepted and cannot be changed unless you invoke the processes mentioned in those same statutes. You're welcome to go ahead and do that.
I'm not even going to bother replying to this backwards attempt to gaslight me into thinking i'm doing this for my own "power". So I can continue to moderate the vaults or something? What a joke it is that this baseless phrase was even mentioned.
Your suggested changes are to the statutes, not any "pledges". The statutes were accepted and cannot be changed unless you invoke the processes mentioned in those same statutes. You're welcome to go ahead and do that.
Fine; you're suggesting changes to both. It's really hard to argue with a wall of text when you can just pick and chose which part of it you're currently talking about.
Regarding the statutes I explained those cannot just be changed without the due process.
Regarding the pledge you have a problem with asking the board to even make such a pledge when it involves them assigning responsibility and powers to some non-association members.
I have yet to see any solution to this problem and I cannot do anything but conclude that this is really about you being unwilling to assign responsibility to the board and the association.
Hence the "accusations" of "power grabbing". If you think I'm wrong and you're willing to accept that the buck stops with the Board and the association then I'm happy to retract that.
Discussing anything with you is literally not possible. I can't even get you to properly read what's been said and i'm constantly being gaslit into some absolutely insane story of me trying to "power grab".
I don't intend to gaslight you. I've brought up the same reasons -- on many occasions and in different formulations at this point -- about why you cannot have the board pledge to only work on objectives agreed "mutually" on by non-board members.
I've yet to hear any good response to this.
You even went so far as to claim that because I didn't get mad at an advertisement made in 2017, that my claims against nine2's game project were based entirely on some personal vendetta. I can't be bothered. goodnight.
That's not the only reason I have to think you have a personal issue with Nine. That being said; I don't want to meddle with that and I'm trying not to take sides in this argument.
I've stated my opinions on the general topic of external advertisement and how specifically Nine has conducted himself relating to the Sanctuary project.
Oh, and release the patreon data.
The accounts and financial overview for the 2021 year will be public.
What exactly do you mean by "the patreon data"?