Discussion about stealth fields Cybran

Skrat

Stealth is an important and interesting feature of cybran. But at the current moment it requires too much cost for countering it.
You are forced to do stream scout from at least 1, and often 2 factories just to be able to shoot at enemy units. And with air lost, even that won't help you much. 1 Deceiver costs only 160 mass and 1600 energy. T1 air scout 40 mass and 580 energy. It's not hard to calculate that if you spend 4 scouts to scout an army with stealth, you're already at a resource loss. And you'll spend more than 4 scouts. And the stealth field energy drain is only 40 power.

Suggestion for Deceiver:
Increase energy drain from 40 to 60
Reduce range from 24 to 20

For Counter-Intelligence Boat:
Reduce maximum speed from 6 to 5 and turn rate from 55 to 45 (like the UEF Shield Boat)
Increase energy drain from 100 to 150

I also suggest adding an energy drain for Fire Beetle.
Right now they have cloaking which does not require energy drain.
Even a t1 land scout cybran has an energy drain per second when in cloaking mode.

For Fire Beetle:
Increase the energy drain from 0 to 20

Skrat

Also would like to hear your opinion on adding team damage for Fire Beetle. The other Mercy kamikaze unit has full command damage.
Or remove the command damage for Mercy too, which would make them much more interesting to use

Sainse

Suggestion for Deceiver:
Increase energy drain from 40 to 60
Reduce range from 38 to 32

It's not how deceiver works. Learn unit stats before proposing to nerf them. Deceiver is 24 range.

The other Mercy kamikaze unit has full command damage. Or remove the command damage for Mercy too, which would make them much more interesting to use

Mercy cannot damage other mercy, beetles would damage other beetles with friendly fire. That's why it's the way it is. See this discussion for more info. I had similar opinion as you before but there are valid arguments against it.

Skrat

@Sainse Okay, I looked at 1 number wrong, I fixed it, thanks. That doesn't mean they don't need to be changed

Skrat

@Sainse Beetles do not damage each other with friendly fire. Learn unit stats. You can check it out
Mercy are more expensive, do damage slowly, and die very easily

Skrat

This post is deleted!

waffelzNoob

I think especially stealth boats are awful because frigates have great aa so even with a scout stream you'll see very little, and only for a split second.
Here's me unable to see cybran navy even with up to 4 air facs spamming scouts, resulting in the crazy situation where I end up having to use a t3 air scout stream:
https://replay.faforever.com/24700304

At some points you may think "why didn't he go in he had more???" or "why did he allow this fight he had less???"

For all I know there's a stealth boat hiding 5 destroyers
I can't see what he has in totality which is a very important factor in deciding when to fight, and if opponent decides to shift g his army into you you have a limited time window to react, and that time window can just not exist if you can't see the navy

FtXCommando

Think it’s pretty funny that mermaids have the 2nd best torp defense for cost in the game only behind cooper while it isn’t even their job

maudlin27

I don't have so much of an issue with deceivers since Cybran lack T2 mobile shield, you're unlikely to be cloaking an entire army with a single deceiver, and land ranges aren't as long as naval.
However the counter-intelligence boat I find really annoying given the long range on T2 navy

Sainse

@Skrat said in Discussion about stealth fields Cybran:

@Sainse Beetles do not damage each other with friendly fire

Word would is hypothetical in English. If beetles get friendly fire, they would/will potentially kill the entire chain of 10 beetles with 8 beetles in the back dealing zero damage to the enemy. That's not a great idea, especially considering how clunky their pathfinding already is

Cloaking drain isn't bad though

Skrat

@Sainse Using a chain of 10 beetle at a time is toxic in itself, especially when sniping ACU.
But you don't necessarily need to add friendly fire to them. I was just pointing out the non logical stats of beetles compared to other units