ACU TML too strong for short-range combat
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@Caliber said in ACU TML too strong for short-range combat:
people abusing the new fast sera tml com to one shot coms is brutal
Afaik this is unintended and should be fixed
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Hello, @phong (I mean gourand).
I totally agree with you: being able to see com upgrades are beneficial, escpecially for new players.
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You can calculate com upgrades from com HP and visuals
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That is an unreasonable expectation for new players
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Hiding important (s)acu upgrades (like laser/double gun) is a nice part of the game imo. Very often i suicide a unit on purpose into a min 18+ advancing cybran acu just to check if he made laser, or if im the one that made the laser i hold fire on my acu to trick my opponent.
Acus and sacus are the only units in the game where upon seeing them u dont instantly know how strong they are and it adds depth to the game.
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@Sainse if the information is available to players as you say, scouting it should highlight and label it as it does other information.
@TheWeakie apparently you're unaware "you can calculate com upgrades from HP and visuals". If Sainse is correct, he depth you refer to is that of your own ignorance of obscure, unintended, clunky ways of gathering intel when the game fails to communicate it and also fails to hide it. Either show this information properly or, if you're gonna argue for keeping it hidden, hide it properly. The way it is now is due to oversight by the original devs and players figuring out workarounds.
Here's some of the things that usually show up on text markers in team games: "com upgrading", "experimental under construction", "TML ACU" - all of that stuff is often scouted, the information is often revealed, the players do their jobs, but since the game doesn't do it's job of labeling and disseminating it, teammates have to do this part themselves too. There's no gameplay depth in leaving this burden to them.
I understand some are attached to the more interesting dynamics this flaw of the UI created but it also created some shitty dynamics as well. Gameplay depth should rely on players' choices, and the game should properly convey all the information needed to inform those choices.
Maybe a good middle ground is to give the upgrade icons stealth.
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@phong It is hidden properly. You can see if enemy is stalling mass, how much mass he has in storage, how much energy he has in storage, etc, etc. by visuals only. Never seen anyone complaining “I should be notified the enemy overflows mass” as automating everything like this is a legal map hack. The game has plenty of ways to get intel already.
Think of all the stuff that usually shows up on text markers in team games
Game does that for allies, not for enemies. For enemies players need to watch out for big gun acu themselves.
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Game does that for allies, not for enemies. For enemies players need to watch out for big gun acu themselves.
The game alerts you when teammates get upgrades and build experimentals via chat messages. These were implemented in faf and are not in the base game - another example of info that's relevant, poorly communicated, that got a fix which I think is imperfect because it's transient and lacks location information and is at odds with how the game usually presents info: using icons. As for enemies, "gun acu" text markers are quite common in the early game, players add this info to the map themselves, after scouting it and recognizing it, because the game doesn't do it. Getting the information isn't the problem, showing it is.
My suggestion would not make the information easier to get. If a com got gun and I didn't scout it, the invisible unit that would show this upgrade icon next to the com would not be revealed to me until I had vision of it, same as all other units in the game. How is that a "legal map hack"? Literally the only difference would be I wouldn't need to zoom in to see the big gun. Why are you so attached to this oddity in the game's presentation? Is that what you call gameplay depth?
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The difference is that one is your team’s total information that always exists, the other is information that requires you to take the time to digest. If you quickly skim and see an ACU walking, that’s lazier intel than if you took the time to get additional information from it. Same way paying attention to a UEF shot doing 200 instead of 100 damage will tell you it’s a gun ACU even though it’s shooting at the same rate. Had plenty of situations of it being unoticed and it genuinely is a tactical advantage of UEF gun upgrade.
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@FtXCommando As I said, I understand some are attached to the more interesting dynamics this flaw of the UI created but it also created some shitty dynamics as well. Gameplay depth should rely on players' choices, and the game should properly convey all the information needed to inform those choices.
Gameplay depth should not rely on noticing damage values or 3d model variations. It's a RTS not a "spot the difference" game.
If the original devs had included units that don't have associated icons, I'd have to concede that this was an intended mechanic, but they never did. Instead they went with stealth, cloak or jamming when they wanted gameplay elements revolving around intel gathering. That's because hiding icons (and thus information down into the detailed 3d level) runs counter to the goal and usefulness of the continuous zoom feature which defines this game to a much greater extent than the stuff you mentioned in your post. And when those aforementioned abilities trip you up, it doesn't feel like it's the game screwing you instead of your opponent.
