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    Punish bad lobbies

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    • FtXCommandoF
      FtXCommando
      last edited by

      just play matchmaker

      R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • maudlin27M
        maudlin27
        last edited by

        While I dislike many of those scenarios, I'm not sure how feasible the proposed solutions are even if it was felt they were desirable.

        • afk hosters - I'm not sure if it's possible for the client to get information on if all players have checked that they're ready and (if so) if it is then capable of checking over a period of 5m if everyone is 'ready' except the host and (if so) to then automatically kick the host. Even if it was possible, it'd require someone with the expertise to code.
        • Kicker (kicking low rated to make room for high rated after a long period) - how to evidence? Also what about a host who is afk, and returns to see a far too low rated player in one of the game slots that would mean a very imbalanced game (although you could argue they should've just set rating limits if that was the case)
        • Spawns shuffle - I dont understand this, the host can switch player positions if they want, with no need to kick someone
        • Infinite balances - if host takes ages to balance then say you'll leave if theyve not settled on teams within a couple of minutes and then join a different game
        • unmotivated kicks - I dont see how an options list would help - hosts could pick an option even if it doesnt apply. Also requires dev time to code such a list, and moderator time to then review the option chosen and somehow figure out if the option is appropriate in the circumstances (which seems unfeasible).

        As others have said, the solution to avoiding lobby issues is either host your own lobby or join matchmaker. That and to 'add foe' hosts that exhibit behaviours you mention so you won't waste time joining their games in the future (assuming it's still an option after the various changes to FAF/the client, I've not checked).

        M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
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        C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • veteranasheV
          veteranashe
          last edited by

          All of that is hard to equally enforce.

          I would like to see a all welcome till they are not enforced with a short ban though

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          • ThomasHiattT
            ThomasHiatt
            last edited by

            Only play ladder. Joining custom lobbies is like watching cable TV with lots of ads.

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            • C
              Cocucka @ThomasHiatt
              last edited by

              @thomashiatt , @ftxcommando , explain me please how can I play ladder at desired position without full share on dual gap map.

              FtXCommandoF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
              • C
                Cocucka @TheVVheelboy
                last edited by

                @endranii , yes, this is one of possible solutions.
                But look here...

                gap.jpg

                Right now (10 hours away from prime time) I can see 5 lobbies with e.g. dual gap with totally 60 slots and 23 players.

                Hence I don't believe that hosting extra lobby will quicken game start.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                • C
                  Cocucka @maudlin27
                  last edited by

                  @maudlin27 said in Punish bad lobbies:

                  While I dislike many of those scenarios, I'm not sure how feasible the proposed solutions are even if it was felt they were desirable.

                  • afk hosters - I'm not sure if it's possible for the client to get information on if all players have checked that they're ready and (if so) if it is then capable of checking over a period of 5m if everyone is 'ready' except the host and (if so) to then automatically kick the host. Even if it was possible, it'd require someone with the expertise to code.
                  • Kicker (kicking low rated to make room for high rated after a long period) - how to evidence? Also what about a host who is afk, and returns to see a far too low rated player in one of the game slots that would mean a very imbalanced game (although you could argue they should've just set rating limits if that was the case)
                  • Spawns shuffle - I dont understand this, the host can switch player positions if they want, with no need to kick someone
                  • Infinite balances - if host takes ages to balance then say you'll leave if theyve not settled on teams within a couple of minutes and then join a different game
                  • unmotivated kicks - I dont see how an options list would help - hosts could pick an option even if it doesnt apply. Also requires dev time to code such a list, and moderator time to then review the option chosen and somehow figure out if the option is appropriate in the circumstances (which seems unfeasible).

                  As others have said, the solution to avoiding lobby issues is either host your own lobby or join matchmaker. That and to 'add foe' hosts that exhibit behaviours you mention so you won't waste time joining their games in the future (assuming it's still an option after the various changes to FAF/the client, I've not checked).

                  • afk hosters - after certain percents (e.g. 10/12) of players are ready startup timer runs automatically. But instead of actual startup timer will kick unXed players.
                  • kicker - players should be queued from observers. Thus to take high rank into host's team he would need to kick 5-6 players before - equal to rehosting.
                  • spawns problem - some players want to play specific positions (e.g. air slot). Unfortunately hosts often shuffle until they and only they are satisfied. Example: reshuffle until take no-mid spawn and the highest rank join host's team. So I'd like to have air/mid/navy/team lock option as protection of reshuffle. Alternatively opti should automatically turn on after 2 reshuffles.
                  • unmotivated kicks - consider these kick reasons: refaf (with slot autoholded), ping , preadded to host's foe. All such reasons also can be checked automatically.

                  All in all, this sounds like matchmaking 2.0) with much more control of games.

                  N 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -2
                  • phongP
                    phong
                    last edited by phong

                    I felt the same way about bad hosts and started hosting and it worked for me. You will be able to solve all your problems if enough players come to prefer your games over others, and you will get there way faster than the changes you're asking devs to make.

                    C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • N
                      Nex @Cocucka
                      last edited by

                      @cocucka said in Punish bad lobbies:

                      All in all, this sounds like matchmaking 2.0) with much more control of games.

                      This rather sounds like matchmaking 0.5
                      Like what you actually want is a matchmaking queue for dual gap, where you can check slots you prefer or even only play those slots.

                      What you are proposing is just making custom games less custom, which might be a good thing in these very specific scenarios, though I doubt even there it'll actually make things better.

                      There is no reason to do any of this when adding a matchmaking queue is more effective and requires 95% less effort.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                      • ZLOZ
                        ZLO
                        last edited by ZLO

                        78c8dccb-c888-4c25-9e74-1bbc83f7a256-image.png

                        Does not look THAT bad TBH.

                        wonder how would one decide witch version of the map to use ughhh

                        Can hide this in "extra options" if someone insists that it looks ugly

                        Tho adding many more separate ratings for each start position sounds kinda bad

                        Edit:
                        also if you gonna just select all options and search, you are then more likely to end up in slots that nobody else wants

                        TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI" | http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus | http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd

                        N 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • phongP
                          phong
                          last edited by phong

                          This post is deleted!
                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • C
                            Cocucka @phong
                            last edited by

                            @phong said in Punish bad lobbies:

                            I felt the same way about bad hosts and started hosting and it worked for me. You will be able to solve all your problems if enough players come to prefer your games over others, and you will get there way faster than the changes you're asking devs to make.

                            Check out any popular online game (lol, dota, overwatch). Nowadays role matchmaking - must have. Nobody wants toxic or unfair games.

                            phongP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -2
                            • phongP
                              phong @Cocucka
                              last edited by phong

                              @cocucka we already have matchmaking, but that's beside the point. Even if the devs agreed with your suggestions, it would take months to make the changes. You don't have to wait months (or forever) to solve your problems, at least not in my experience. Try it.

                              C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                              • deletethisD
                                deletethis
                                last edited by

                                It's worth remembering for "afk" hosts that they might have been waiting for one or more hours for the game to start, so I'm sure you can wait some 10 minutes for them to finish doing whatever is keeping them busy.

                                phongP C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • phongP
                                  phong @deletethis
                                  last edited by

                                  @deletethis or just say in lobby chat "i rehost", then get an almost insta full lobby

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                                  • C
                                    Cocucka @phong
                                    last edited by

                                    @phong said in Punish bad lobbies:

                                    @cocucka we already have matchmaking, but that's beside the point. Even if the devs agreed with your suggestions, it would take months to make the changes. You don't have to wait months (or forever) to solve your problems, at least not in my experience. Try it.

                                    Agree, I'll try.
                                    Sorry, miss clicked @Nex to reply)

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                                    • C
                                      Cocucka @deletethis
                                      last edited by

                                      @deletethis said in Punish bad lobbies:

                                      It's worth remembering for "afk" hosts that they might have been waiting for one or more hours for the game to start, so I'm sure you can wait some 10 minutes for them to finish doing whatever is keeping them busy.

                                      Sure but only in case I am guaranteed to play. Because wait 10 minutes and wait 10 minutes to be kicked/forced unfair slot - very different experience.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • ?
                                        A Former User
                                        last edited by

                                        This all should be automated

                                        phongP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • phongP
                                          phong @A Former User
                                          last edited by

                                          @melanol go ahead and automate it

                                          ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • ?
                                            A Former User @phong
                                            last edited by

                                            @phong I meant the matchmaking style. I once proposed a hundred queues, but the administration even removed the 4v4 no share queue, and I guess they want as less buttons as possible there.

                                            There shouldn't be lobbies for popular maps/modes, just matchmaking queues.

                                            N 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
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