Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?
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Mapgen is fun and diverse until you realise it generates only like 10 different types of maps with 1% variance in looks and gameplay within each type, and their quality peaks at like a 7/10
human-made maps dont have the 1% variance in looks and gameplay but atleast they exceed being 7/10 maps, and we have the ability to filter out the <5/10 trash, unlike with mapgen
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I stopped stressing out because of random maps, and now we have something to do while the 1st factory is being built: studying the map.
The biggest issue with random maps is that sometimes you don't know if a unit can fit into this or that pass
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Throwing in another idea: keep it just one 1v1 ladder, but add a (checked) box “Include mapgen”. Those who don’t like it can uncheck this box. The client can then match by rating, then pick a map based on whether both players allow mapgen.
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@treos People playing the same maps only will have higher rating
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Map veto or second queue seems to be the best way forward. I jut returned from a work trip so I have not been online for the last week. Did any progress occur on this?
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@melanol said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
I stopped stressing out because of random maps, and now we have something to do while the 1st factory is being built: studying the map.
The biggest issue with random maps is that sometimes you don't know if a unit can fit into this or that pass
Agree!!
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map veto has been "in progress" for about 8 years at this point, so we can guess and say we are about halfway there in dev time
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How often did i had to decide between tmm and custom, but in reality i just wanna start a game regardless of the map/type, maybe i had a favorite, but was also willing to play another map during non-peak-hours.
What if we open up the possibility to create one-time queue-able customs to all players?
Simplified flow:
- Select a name, map, mods, restrictions, rating-range, min game quality etc.
- Publish the game to the server/other players
- You can join multiple lobbies, but only "host" one or two?
- Lobby will be active till started or empty
- Rating could be applied to global
@DGun you could just open up that 1v1 with all your desired configs and still be in queue.
Would love to get your opinion about that
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MapGen has its limits and after awhile you will see patterns that lead to the same build orders and "meta" of human-made maps.
As far as visuals go, map gen is really dull and makes the experience just that...
I pretty much don't play team games anymore because it's all map gen so please do not do this to 1v1.
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@clint089 said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
How often did i had to decide between tmm and custom, but in reality i just wanna start a game regardless of the map/type, maybe i had a favorite, but was also willing to play another map during non-peak-hours.
What if we open up the possibility to create one-time queue-able customs to all players?
Simplified flow:
- Select a name, map, mods, restrictions, rating-range, min game quality etc.
- Publish the game to the server/other players
- You can join multiple lobbies, but only "host" one or two?
- Lobby will be active till started or empty
- Rating could be applied to global
@DGun you could just open up that 1v1 with all your desired configs and still be in queue.
Would love to get your opinion about that
I think this would be too complicated for practical application. a 1v1 mapgen ladder is the simplest solution. One click. Done.
I think it would be really interesting to see who is the best in the world at 1v1 mapgen.
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@morax said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
MapGen has its limits and after awhile you will see patterns that lead to the same build orders and "meta" of human-made maps.
As far as visuals go, map gen is really dull and makes the experience just that...
I pretty much don't play team games anymore because it's all map gen so please do not do this to 1v1.
I agree visuals are superior in hand crafted maps. But there is just so much depth that goes into mastering a map.
I was watching the last tournament live stream. At one point the commentator mentions "Most people don't know, but these particular trees next to the base are super rich in mass, if you don't harvest them at the start you are at a major disadvantage". I think this perfectly illustrates the problem.
If you love memorizing stuff and perfecting a map then great. If you don't (like me) 1v1 current ladder is a pain.
When the starting position is truly equal - then the only differentiating factor is skill. Mapgen.
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@ftxcommando said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
map veto has been "in progress" for about 8 years at this point, so we can guess and say we are about halfway there in dev time
lol.
What is the bottleneck? Developer availability?
The original gpgnet client had veto and preference.
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It's more like nuclear fusion. Map veto is constantly six months away.
The bottleneck is developer availability. A concept exists how map veto should work, but somebody has to implement it. If somebody wants to try, I can provide guidance.
The only real requirement is that you have some (any) sort of programming experience -
@blackyps said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
It's more like nuclear fusion. Map veto is constantly six months away.
The bottleneck is developer availability. A concept exists how map veto should work, but somebody has to implement it. If somebody wants to try, I can provide guidance.
The only real requirement is that you have some (any) sort of programming experienceI could probably have a crack at it. Is it on github?
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@dgun the stacked tree reclaim is a general-game knowledge rather than a certain map. Even in map-gen you have to learn to recognize certain reclaim types.
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@morax there are maps with reclaim types that don't get generated and are very specific to the map.
In the last invitational there was a map (I think that's the one dgun also meant) that had tree groups, where the single trees were worth like 5 mass each. That's something you'll never see in mapgen and I think you couldn't even see the tree reclaim on ctrl+shift -
@dgun said in Can we Pleaassee have 1 v1 random map only queue?:
I could probably have a crack at it. Is it on github?
Yes, all the software that needs changing is available on github. This is the concept the matchmaker team wrote. Let me know if you are interested in doing this.
The first step would be that we plan together how it would work on a technical level.
FAF_Map_Vetoes-2.pdf -
Well, I'm probably not gonna be loved for this opinion but...
Lets go one step further, and bring on Mapgen Unexplored....Unexplored is only really possible with mapgen, but it's a great 1v1 format. Like really fun, it's totally underrated.... Lets do it...
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No, unexplored is unplayable in 20x20 due to how vision works in the game. Entirely possible for a chunk to be explored on your map but you didn’t fly in the correct spot so you didn’t see a mex spot that suddenly pops in.
