Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread
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Billy + T3 + teleport is insanely powerful, it isn't an option to be allowed.
This was my gut reaction as well (shield + t3 + teleport also seems like it could be pretty beastly in some situations), but why not simply tune the cost of teleporting to make it not so?
I agree that special rules or exceptions are bad, but there's already precedent for adjusting teleport cost based on energy/mass cost of the unit (bp values TeleportMass/EngMod--could add in build time if you like). Include the cost of enhancements when calculating teleport cost* and you have many, many wheels to spin, all based on a central existing algorithm.
*Picking this out because it's an important possibility and I don't want to it get lost in the specifics here--mass cost of the telemazor (4000) is double that of the Cybran commander (2000). Just taking that into consideration--it isn't right now, TeleportMassMod is 0 for everything--could vary balance of teleporting with and without other enhancements significantly.
"But that's too complicated for players to learn"--there's a ton of shit (most of it, I'd say) that's too complicated for players to learn, and they approximate instead. Make the cost clear at the time and they'd do the same with teleporting.
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Billy is much safer of a teleport tool than laser due to the TML range, combine it with spamming t2 shields for survivability to teleport out (which you can make while reloading a billy) and it's just not possible. You would need to include a variety of special rules on UEF teleport to make it remotely fair to deal with beyond making it more expensive. It would always be insanely obnoxious of a tool regardless of cost.
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You could make it much slower. Just need to hit the sweet spot that creates a red queen's race in building enough shields to survive vs. teleporting out in time to avoid retribution.
But I'm just throwing stuff out there. I agree it's a sticky question. Needing to choose between engineering suite and billy would address some of it.
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@ftxcommando said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:
Billy + T3 + teleport is insanely powerful, it isn't an option to be allowed. T3 + teleport is a meme gimmick that I have only seen in games that were won 10 minutes before.
This sounds like a great reason to make teleport + billy/mlaser more limited.
As GreenSubmarine pointed out, it makes sense given that the upgrades involved are huge energy costs. (HOW does energy get teleported across the map in the first place? Ask Tesla?
Overall I think making it more expensive when used with mlaser or billy is not a ridiculous proposal mechanically, and makes a ton of sense for balance)Obviously, putting them on the same slot, while it might 'make sense', would restrict some fun strategies regarding teleport+billy and teleport+mlaser.
I can honestly see the best solution for balance being making teleport expensive when combined with billy/laser, but cheaper without,.
One option would just be to make teleport cheaper for the factions that can't exploit it with mlaser or billy. Another would be to increase teleport costs if the ACU had a mlaser or a billy.I get that 'special exceptions' feels bad - but if the 'commander draws lots of energy' angle is taken, it's more palateable, and seems far better for balance.
That is, seraphim and aeon use teleport to escape danger, UEF and cybran use teleport to destroy enemies and also to escape danger (if they like), so it costs more because it has so much more utility.
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Sera has double gun, they use their teleport as a suicide on air grids just the same, it just has more than 5 seconds of a margin for error. UEF and Aeon are rn the useless tele factions, telebilly makes UEF viable in terms of sera/cyb tele. Aeon has no late game high alpha upgrade to attach to their teleport and so they’re the ones that would need a cheaper teleport since tele stealth tml bases are just not a big deal.
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Well, to give Aeon a viable option , give the second range gun upgrade full OC damage vs unshielded buildings
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@ftxcommando Fair enough. I've seen more discussion regarding teleport+billy than I have seraphim gun + teleport.
In the lower player-count games I play, teleport is kindof a 'pie in the sky' idea!
I just think it sounds very much worth exploring adjusting teleport costs based on how well the ACU can exploit it (be that mlaser, seraphim guns, or billy!) -
@ftxcommando said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:
Billy is much safer of a teleport tool than laser due to the TML range, combine it with spamming t2 shields for survivability to teleport out (which you can make while reloading a billy) and it's just not possible. You would need to include a variety of special rules on UEF teleport to make it remotely fair to deal with beyond making it more expensive. It would always be insanely obnoxious of a tool regardless of cost.
Explain the t2 sheild part of this please
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You build shields for extra hp so you can teleport out while being attacked by air?
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you can teleport uef drones now????
what if acu had slot like stinger to take a sparky/percy with it?
maybe it can shoot while being carried like units in gc claw. -
I think the teleport cost based on range clyf made should at least be tested out as an alternative to hard limiting the tele range.
When it's super expensive to tele long range it will give you more time to scout the ridiculous amout of power your opponent is making giving you time to prepare some kind of counterattack / defense.
Kind of sad that no one from the balance team is interested enough in it to at least have some response to it (even just saying they don't like the idea) -
@nex It might just be that the teleporting ACU instead opts to jump in 2 or 3 hops rather than 1 big leap.
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I never assume they're not silently lurking about.
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@sylph_ said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:
It might just be that the teleporting ACU instead opts to jump in 2 or 3 hops rather than 1 big leap.
But that will take longer and you will have to charge your teleport in less safe locations than your main base, so there is a tradeoff between one long range jump vs multiple short range jumps.
It also opens the possibility of short range teleports that are much quicker. For jumping up a plateau for example.@clyf said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:
I never assume they're not silently lurking about.
Yeah I also think some of them read it and I know a lot of the balance suggestions are pretty psycho and they don't wanna deal with that, but as people that have to make decisions they should at least have some transparency as to what they are thinking about stuff, especially if it got positive feedback from multiple people.
It just makes contributing unnecessarily harder when you never know if something you could work on right now is even wanted or not. They want less work and there are people ready to do the work, but nobody wants to do work that just gets thrown away in the end.
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@ftxcommando said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:
You build shields for extra hp so you can teleport out while being attacked by air?
With t1?
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No, it's a response as to why T3, tele and billy shouldn't be all possible at the same time.
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I am the forum goblin that reads all balance posts
I just do it during work on my phone so i barely respond cause i suck at typing on it
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@thewheelie hello forum goblin, you should buy a garlic press!
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FTX 2 days ago I used UEF teleport to kill shady by making torp launchers, so yes people do use UEF tele.
Last week I used a sera sacu to take out an SMD and nuked an air player.
And it was glorious!The thing you guys are all forgetting is that not every one is 2k, and that seems to be where all these complaints come from. You elitists feel free to alter your games however you want, but please don't ruin the fun for the rest of us.
You want to make tele pointless? Fine, I'm sure the 25 high rankers who are super bothered by this and never play any games where people use tele, will love these changes.
While you're there though and talking about how it cant be stopped and its unfair etc, maybe take a look at the satellite you cant shoot down, or the t4 bomber you can cntrl K and kill anything under shields or the floating arti you can just spam and end any naval game with. Other than that you could just not alter stuff that has been great fun for 15 years and everyone likes.
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You can literally walk away from a teleporting UEF acu making torp launchers and survive, sounds like game was over or shady was afk
