The "attack move" for engineers from factories

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I would think that there is something wrong with the "attack move" for engineers from factories for both ranked and for single player/co-op.

For ranked: This works perfectly fine where the default attack move from the factory does not change if you click on your engineer and "move that attack move order elsewhere" for that one single engineer. This is how it should work.

For single player/co-op: This seems to work differently where the default attack move changes if you click on that engineer and "move that default attack move from the factory"? This results in the default attack move from the factory being changed permanently.

I have tried this at my end and I seem to think that this is correct.
Has anybody encountered the same issue?

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I haven't specifically tested what you are talking about, but I never found that FAM worked differently in coop than in ladder/global games.

If you hold shift to drag a factory attack-move order, you will change that order for all units/buildings that share that order. It doesn't matter which unit is selected. Clicking on the engineer to select it is irrelevant. The fact that you are talking about clicking on the engineer, I think shows where your mistake is. Any time you use "shift" and drag an order, it doesn't matter what units (if any) are selected.

If you want to be able to move the factory attack-move order for 1 engineer, but keep it the same for the factory, what you need to do is click on the factory, and give it new orders (a new attack-move order). Then, you can move the preexisting attack-move order, and you will be changing orders for the existing engineers, but not for the factory itself. In general, if you want to make a factory that spams out factory attack-move engineers, it's good to click on the factory and give it a new/different attack-move order basically every time an engineer comes out. That way you can use shift to drag multiple attack-move orders and each one will belong to a single engineer, so you can most-efficiently spread out your reclaimers.

The key to understanding attack move is as follows. There are two kinds of attack move, "normal attack-move" (NAM) and "factory attack-move" (FAM).

Units on NAM behave just like they are on patrol. They will travel towards the waypoint, but while they're traveling, they will get distracted by stuff they can do, like reclaiming trees. An engineer on NAM can travel across the map, reclaiming rocks along the way. When it gets to the waypoint it will continue to do engineer stuff (reclaiming rocks within a certain range, including traveling from the waypoint to a nearby spot in order to reclaim a rock that was outside of its build range). When it's at the waypoint and it runs out of engineer stuff to do (nothing else to reclaim, or it can't reclaim rocks because your mass bar is full) the order is removed from this unit's queue and it moves on to the next order (if there is a next order, otherwise it becomes idle).

Units on FAM behave very differently: they travel directly to the waypoint without stopping. Then they do engineer stuff (reclaiming rocks/trees within their "guard" range) until they run out of engineer stuff to do. They can reclaim stuff that is much farther away than under any other circumstance. They can reclaim stuff within their "guard" range instead of only being able to reclaim stuff within their "build" range. So unlike an engineer on NAM, a FAM engineer does not have to move in order to reclaim the same stuff, which is why FAM engineers are more efficient at reclaiming. When it runs out of engineer things to do within its guard range, the FAM order ends and the engineer becomes idle. (a FAM engineer never has another order after the FAM order)

So that's the difference in how they behave, which explains why you would prefer to have a FAM engineer (basically the only reason is that they can reclaim stuff a lot faster).

FAM is an engine bug. In theory, the FAF team could considered it to be an exploit, and ban it, but that would be hard to enforce and players wouldn't like it. So it's just considered to be part of the game and you're allowed/encouraged to "abuse" it as much as you can.

Here's how you get FAM to happen:

You can't give a FAM order to an existing engineer that has already been built. Any order that you give to an existing engineer will always be NAM. Even if you tell the engineer to "assist" another engineer on FAM, the assisting engineer will not behave like FAM.

The only way to make a FAM order is for the factory to assign the engineer to "attack-move." This attack-move order must be the last order from the factory (when the engineer comes out--after the engineer comes out, you can change the factory's orders without affecting any already-built engineers). The attack-move order must not be preceded by any other attack-move orders but it can have any number of move orders before it.

So you can get FAM with a factory that has only 1 order for units coming out, a single attack-move order. Or you can give 1+ move orders before a single attack-move order. In those circumstances, engineers coming out will do FAM. You can't get FAM if your factory has 2 attack-moves in the queue. You can't get FAM if you have an attack-move order followed by a move order. If you do that, the engineers that come out will act like every attack-move order is a regular attack move. I haven't tested it in a while, but I think you can put in a "ferry" order in the queue before the final attack-move order, and the final order will still be a FAM.

FAM tends to be most effective when only 1 engineer is acting according to the FAM order. It is more efficient to have 4 engineers to come out of a factory, each with their own unique FAM order (so 4 total) than to have 4 engineers sharing a single FAM order. This is because 4 engineers can reclaim faster if you spread them out compared to if they all have to move to the same point. You can accomplish this by selecting the factory every time an engineer comes out, and giving it new orders (a new attack-move order) so that the existing engineer keeps the preexisting order and new engineers will get the new order.

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Its always the same. Thats even smth we cant change.

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@arma473 said in The "attack move" for engineers from factories:

If you want to be able to move the factory attack-move order for 1 engineer, but keep it the same for the factory, what you need to do is click on the factory, and give it new orders (a new attack-move order). Then, you can move the preexisting attack-move order, and you will be changing orders for the existing engineers, but not for the factory itself. In general, if you want to make a factory that spams out factory attack-move engineers, it's good to click on the factory and give it a new/different attack-move order basically every time an engineer comes out. That way you can use shift to drag multiple attack-move orders and each one will belong to a single engineer, so you can most-efficiently spread out your reclaimers.

I would think that it is sometimes easier just clicking on the 1 single engineer which stops at the FAM default point from the factory and changing the FAM point just for that engineer by moving the FAM point for that engineer (and this can be done for each respective engineers accumulating at that factory default FAM point), instead of clicking on the factory and having to change the FAM default point every single time for each and every engineer which comes out.

@speed2 said in The "attack move" for engineers from factories:

Its always the same. Thats even smth we cant change.

I would want it to be the same too but somehow I have noticed that there is this difference?

I was trying to see if anyone had the same issue too and if I happened to be wrong.

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@TestPlay said in The "attack move" for engineers from factories:

I would think that it is sometimes easier just clicking on the 1 single engineer which stops at the FAM default point from the factory and changing the FAM point just for that engineer by moving the FAM point for that engineer (and this can be done for each respective engineers accumulating at that factory default FAM point), instead of clicking on the factory and having to change the FAM default point every single time for each and every engineer which comes out.

It would be easier if the game worked that way, but it doesn't.

Each single engineer does not get its own COPY of the factory's orders. The single engineer is SHARING the factory's orders with all other units "born" from the factory while those orders are active. Selecting a unit doesn't change that.

If you edit those orders (hold shift, click and drag to move a waypoint, or if you delete a waypoint with ctrl-shift right-click) you are editing the SHARED orders, so your edits affect ALL units for which those orders are active (all units "born" from the factory that have not yet exhausted the orders).

Hypothetically, you have exactly 1 land factory that is making nothing but tanks. You start with a rally point on the right side of the map. Five tanks come out and start traveling to that point. After the fifth tank, you select the factory and give it brand new orders, a rally point to the left side of the map, and five more tanks come out. What happens? The first five tanks go right, to the right waypoint, and stop; the second five tanks go left, to the left waypoint, and stop.

Now let's change it: you have exactly 1 land factory that is making nothing but tanks. You start with a rally point on the right side of the map. Five tanks come out and start traveling to that point. After the fifth tank, you select the rally point and move it (by holding shift, clicking on it, and dragging it with your mouse) to the left side of the map, and five more tanks come out. What happens? Well, for the first five tanks, any of them that already reached the waypoint have "exhausted" their orders, the waypoint is no longer their orders, so they will just stay put on the right side of the map. Any tanks that are still traveling to the right waypoint will turn around and begin traveling to the left. And all new tanks coming out of the factory will travel to the left. It doesn't matter which unit(s) or building(s), if any, are selected while you drag the waypoint. There is just a single waypoint shared between the factory and all existing tanks that haven't yet gotten to the end of their path.

This is really only an issue for factory attack-move because it's so easy to give new orders of any other kind. FAM is the only kind of order that has to be given from the factory itself. For anything else, if you want your tanks to have their own individual orders, just click on them and give them a new move order, or a new attack-move order.

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