M28AI Devlog (v124)

I play 1 game against M28 everyday and would like to thank you for your work - u have no idea how much fun i have after a working day, playing against M28

I have a few observations, if u find them useful:

1. Occasionaly M28 has problems regarding nukes. Namely, when i launch a nuke and its in the air, often he might go to where the nuke will land. I thought it was to lure the enemy but he sent to many planes there. And sometimes he will launch a nuke a few seconds after i do and target the spot that will be destroyed by my nuke
2. when he spots enemy air experimental or gunships, he will often follow them with all their ASF's and get shreded in heavily SAMs fortified town (scouted). When he is fighting ASF vs ASF he will usualy stop, but when its about gunships or air exp he will send them to death often, barely shooting anything down
3. sometimes we have a land experimental nearing our base while he goes with tons of gunships killing some very far away scouts and stuff

ps: is there something special with fatboys or UEF in particular ? I find the games with UEF run a lot slower than games without them, particularly when fatboys move around. I did test and fatboys vs fatboys do indeed cause serious lag. Which is funny because ASF fights even consisting of like 1300 ASF's rarely cause more than -1 or -2. When u see fatboys around after 1.5 hours i can drop to -5

@croutouze If it was with v104 please could you send me the replay ID?

@goblinsly2 said in M28AI Devlog (v104):

I play 1 game against M28 everyday and would like to thank you for your work - u have no idea how much fun i have after a working day, playing against M28

I have a few observations, if u find them useful:

1. Occasionaly M28 has problems regarding nukes. Namely, when i launch a nuke and its in the air, often he might go to where the nuke will land. I thought it was to lure the enemy but he sent to many planes there. And sometimes he will launch a nuke a few seconds after i do and target the spot that will be destroyed by my nuke
2. when he spots enemy air experimental or gunships, he will often follow them with all their ASF's and get shreded in heavily SAMs fortified town (scouted). When he is fighting ASF vs ASF he will usualy stop, but when its about gunships or air exp he will send them to death often, barely shooting anything down
3. sometimes we have a land experimental nearing our base while he goes with tons of gunships killing some very far away scouts and stuff

ps: is there something special with fatboys or UEF in particular ? I find the games with UEF run a lot slower than games without them, particularly when fatboys move around. I did test and fatboys vs fatboys do indeed cause serious lag. Which is funny because ASF fights even consisting of like 1300 ASF's rarely cause more than -1 or -2. When u see fatboys around after 1.5 hours i can drop to -5

Thanks for the comments,

• 1a (air suiciding into nukes) - what air units are going in the nuke radius - gunships, or asfs? I thought I'd added logic for gunships to avoid nukes, but not sure I've done the same for asfs (as it would tax the cpu a lot more)
• 1b (nukes doubling up on human nukes) - It's meant to check for teammate nuke launches, however there will be a 5-10s gap (depending on faction) between a missile launch being queued and actually launching. E.g. if you start firing a missile at target X, 3 seconds later (before the missile launches) M28 thinks target X would be good for it to nuke and launches its missile, then 2 seconds later your missile is released from the launcher, followed a few seconds later by M28's at the same target. If there's a bigger gap between the two (i.e. more than 10s after your missile is released from the silo M28's missile fires) then let me know the replay and timestamp and I can look into further to see if there's a bug
• 2 (asf suicide into air exp) - Could be working as intended depending on the scenario - it will be more aggressive if it thinks it has air control; and if the enemy air experimental is threatening a high value target (like its base, ACU, or a friendly experimental). If it's suiciding into an air experimental that is a long way (e.g. more than a T2 arti firing range) away from high value friendly units, and it's in the first 40m of a game, let me know the replay and rough timestamp and I can see if there are any tweaks I can do.
• 3 (gunships ignoring approaching land exp) - it has an override for land experimentals that get close to its base, although this might vary on map size, if you have a replay and timestamp that's , in the first 40m of a game let me know
  (reason for the 40m threshold is there's a good chance time looking at it would be wasted/I conclude it works as intended but it would potentially take a long time to test to confirm if the re play is later on than that, assuming we're talking about large teamgames/large unit counts)
• 4 (fatboy slowdown) - It's possible, fatboys have some custom logic, although I wouldn't have expected it to be that intensive as other units have similar logic; if you use the cheat menu to spawn a couple of fatboys for M28s on opposing teams early on in a game do you get the same sort of slowdown? if so I could look into further to figure out if its the fatboy logic and (if so) if there are ways I can optimise without making it significantly weaker

@maudlin27 I can't reproduce with v104. Maybe it was just on v103.

v105 Hotfix

Hotfix with 8 changes (5 of which are LOUD specific):

• Fixed bug introduced in v104 that meant ACU upgrades would cancel on completion for all players if M28 mod was active
• Fixed a bug with M28's adjacency build logic that meant it was searching much further away than intended when building adjacent to mexes and hydros that hadn't had construction started
• Underwater mexes should be treated as being a very weak submarine unit so M28 builds subs earlier on to try and kill them.
• LOUD specific - added basic support for the new LOUD functionality to allow custom AIs to be selected from the main lobby (which means for the first time M28 and LOUD can play as teammates instead of just opponents); fixed bugs meaning submarines wouldn't be built.

Acknowledgements

• Sprouto – including a pull request I drafted (to allow LOUD to support selection of custom AI in the game lobby) into the LOUD code and the latest update
• Chucups – noting upgrades are cancelled if M28AI mod is active

If i spawn like 20 fatboys and have them shoot at eachother, my game will practicaly stop. Though that might just be projectile calculation, not necesarily anything to do with M28, granted im on an old i5 [email protected]. But playing 10s and 10s of games on the same map, i noticed that when there are UEF's, after 1h30m game will progressively become slower and slower. When there are no UEF's it is a lot better. Naturaly i thought of fatboys because otherwise i dont see anything unusual about UEF except fatboys and their strange projectiles (projectiles hitting fatboy when it explodes, u can just feel everything stop)

Had another game crashed. I played this map in the very same configuration for 30 times without crash. It crashed only 2 times, both times i was streaming through OBS/youtube. Any idea how OBS could somehow mess the SC or affect its ram usage ?

game_22809066.zip

@goblinsly2 Re OBS I don't know, however it does feature in the log which I wasn't expecting, so if the only times its crashing are when you're using it and there are lots of games where it isn't crashing then it sounds like it does impact memory.
One way to test could be to run an M28 vs M28 game as observer for 45m at max game speed with and without OBS, 'afk', making a note of memory usage with and without it, to see if there's a big difference. However even if confirmed I wouldn't know if there was any solution to using OBS with high memory using mods.

I also wonder if that was the cause of the replay itself not being available in the FAF replay vault - if you have access to the local version could you send it over as well (there was an error that repeated at the end of the game and reviewing the code it's not clear to me why it occured so I'd need a replay to investigate further)

Sadly i don't have a replay even in my replay folder, seems it failed to make one after last crash. I will test stream M28 vs M28 on +10 and see how much ram is used by supreme commander. But for some reason i think it might have to do with audio capture. I use a plugin in obs so that i can stream game audio but not system audio - this is because i am chating with friend on skype while he watches the stream and he hears his echo if i dont disable audio output except sc game

Crashed again. I checked both game times since youtube saved my livestream, 1 crashed at 47 min, the other at 49 min. Image is from last game that crashed, showing 1.8GB max
I tried with bots, 6v6, same map, no crash after 1 hour, will try a longer game tomorrow to see if it crashes, one today ended prematurely to see if it would crash.

v106 Update
33 changes and fixes based on a working through some compatibility issues with LOUD. Although prompted by getting functionality to work for LOUD, 13 of the changes will be of relevance to FAF (in some cases core FAF, in other cases via improved mod compatibility), although they're generally minor changes:

• Fixed some unit categorisation bugs with obsidians and mercy following some changes a while ago with FAF's unit categories
• Late-game arti template shields should only have 1 engineer assigned in low power scenarios once a few have been built
• Fixed a bug with AIx overwhelm not working with RAS SACUs and causing them to lose the benefit of the RAS upgrade
• Made M28 much more likely to build navy on larger maps in certain cases, such as if it was in the Setons Air slot with no teammates
• Various LOUD related fixes, including costruction of experimentals (can only be built by SACUs in LOUD), fixing mobile shields, omni over-construction, made use of new per-AI AIx modifiers, fixed AIx overwhelm to work in LOUD, improvements to experimental construction choice to reflect LOUD unit categories and the lack of a novax

Acknowledgements

• Wingflier - running some M28 vs LOUD games to help with testing including highlighting a number of areas where M28's normal logic wasn't working

Noticed a strange behavior with some of my custom units.
https://youtu.be/eq6I0jkQV40

units BP: ual0108_unit.zip

Try using the PERSONALSHIELD category instead of SHIELD category and see if it changes the behaviour

On it and ty from responding so quickly!

That did the trick!

Hello Maudlin, I created a map (adaptive Falconstone) which also contains water. I noticed that the M28 doesn't build shipyards in the lower water, even though markers are set. However, other AI (Sorian, Uveso) use the areas. Maybe. can you test that? Greetings Saver

M28 doesn’t use markers. From the screenshots the green pond looks more important so I’d expect it to prioritise navy in that pond instead of the red pond.

There might be cases where it does build in the red pond, but it’d depend on how many mexes are within range of the pond and if M28 is on all 3 team slots

I'm really enjoying the AI Maudlin. Your work is much appreciated

Only thing I'd say is that the AI makes a metric shitton of t1 arty and mmls (atleast in the 1v1 games I played), which is kind of unfun to play against. It basically forces you to give arbitrary move commands to all your units 100% of the time. I don't think it is an efficient spending of resources for the AI and it creates weird gameplay that doesn't resemble regular player versus player gameplay. Perhaps you will consider adjusting that.

Maybe 2 versions? One which uses all the annoying ranged units and kites alot (like it does presently) and one which is more human-like and restricts that behaviour to auroras, hoplites, bricks etc? And builds less MML (noticed this in particular for Seraphim).

@stormlantern thanks for the feedback, in terms of the levels being excessive I’d need replays to consider further, but it’s intended that it spams MMLs in response to a potential firebase threat (other reasons for lots of t1 arti include a nearby enemy building; wanting a mix of them to reduce vulnerability to cliffs that block tank shots; and for t1-2 land facs to build later in the game to mix with t3 units built by the t3 land facs).

@Reckless_Charger re the two versions it has something close to that with M28Easy which disables all such microing. One planned feature though is to allow users to adjust M28’s ‘go slow’ mode which could provide something very similar, where instead of considering orders every second you could specify how long it should wait inbetween for its more general land/navy/air unit management logic (it already uses this functionality for games with lots of units to avoid too big a slowdown) . This would make microing much weaker but also make general responsiveness weaker, and would effectively provide a further alternative to M28Easy (eg certain microing like dodging shots and overcharging units manually would be unchanged, while things like kiting would be much weaker albeit still present to some extent)