Suggestion for hoplites and mongoose.

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The Problem

Hoplites and other micro intensive units that have fast turning speeds with low turret traverse speeds lose dps when turning. This basically punishes a player for actively microing them. Microing these units perfectly to mitigate this is usually almost never worth the apm.

If we take the hoplite as an example, it has a turning speed of 90 degrees per second and the turret has a turning speed of 60. When turning around to kite or engage they will lose dps by not shooting at their current target, because the turret lags behind when turning. The mongoose has a similar problem, just less noticeable with its faster turret.

Suggested solution

Instead of just increasing the turret turn rate, I suggest also decreasing the unit’s turn rate to match. On paper the units will be easier to micro in between other tasks the player has to do and get punished a bit harder for neglecting to micro them.

Suggested stats

Hoplite.
Turn speed: 90 >> 75.
Turret speed: 60 >> 75.

Mongoose.
Turn speed: 90 >> 85.
Turret speed: 80 >> 85.

This way, if they turn while aiming at a target, they will still be on target and fire the weapon.

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The suggested values won't fix the problem described when the target moves even slightly in the other direction that the unit is turning towards. And as you're trying to move away from the target, this is likely the case. The rotational speed of the turret needs to be at least faster than the turn speed of the unit to solve the problem.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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Although it wont take the problem away completely, it will alleviate it. The values I proposed are just a suggestion, so playing around with them to see what works in testing would probably always be needed for any changes.

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The same can be seen with the ACU, at times. If you turn in the opposite direction that your target is moving.
ACU rotates left + enemy rotating around your right, ACU won't shoot even though it's looking right at it - or practically right at it.


~ Stryker

Can you send me some mass?

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I am curious to hear what higher-rated players think about this. At my rating (~1800), I find that the unexpected behavior of units & ACU not shooting while turning makes engagements more unpredictable. I do not like this unpredictable element in RTS games. Due to the low tick rate of Faf, it's also not possible to fix the turning-mismicro once it occurs. But maybe some Godgamer will now tell me that's just a skill issue on my part, and I should think about turning times and movement radii before issuing movement orders.

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the units are nerfed into unplayable, there is no skill issue, besides some ladder games (that i have never seen btw) perhaps, there is no point in wasting your time microing those units if you are not on some 5x5 map or yudi that has infinite apm, as to me, they aren't even a niche unit at this point

queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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@rezy-noob They both seem like fire support with thin skin. I don't know much about higher level play, but they don't do that very well, do they?

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Trying to have both range bots and tanks be viable front line units seems hard to balance. They are much faster giving them raiding potential. T3 uef has titans and percies, but they have a large cost difference. You could try making them more expendable and cheaper to help with micro mistakes, as well as allowing less mass donation during raids.

On the topic of paper armour, did you know the ravager has the same hp/mass as a mongoose?

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@xayo said in Suggestion for hoplites and mongoose.:

I am curious to hear what higher-rated players think about this. At my rating (~1800), I find that the unexpected behavior of units & ACU not shooting while turning makes engagements more unpredictable. I do not like this unpredictable element in RTS games. Due to the low tick rate of Faf, it's also not possible to fix the turning-mismicro once it occurs. But maybe some Godgamer will now tell me that's just a skill issue on my part, and I should think about turning times and movement radii before issuing movement orders.

Yea I'm not a big fan of the behavior either, so I sympathize with the OP. Idk about the proposed numbers though.