A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community
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FTX has done a lot of work to make hosting tournies/showmatches on faflive a very smooth process, so take advantage of it. I don't think this needs to be said again, but you don't have to be a player councillor to host a tournament.
You seem to have a lot of very specific restrictions that you would like to see, so you can host a tourney with exactly those restrictions. There is nothing stopping you from hosting a tournament specifically for people who don't have the energy to spam too many games like demonstreamer, but have 500+ games, but who don't want to whore BOs either like those dirty 1900+ who unfairly play at a super high level, but who also aren't literal trash tier at under 1600. You know, a tourney for the common folk.
Be proactive and be the change you want to see in this community. Instead of trying to denigrate people like FTX and Swkoll, who really do care and who have put a huge amount of their time and resources into hosting tournies and generally helping out, you can come up with workable and implementable solutions, and prove that you can carry them out. Imo if you seriously want to have a shot at getting people to vote for you as PC, you have to prove that you will do better, instead of only flinging mud at people who have contributed positively to the community and not offering/executing any solutions yourself.
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morax said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
I left the "ladder team" recently for similar reasons in that the debates on what map is good or bad was endless, often with FTX or arch shooting down any suggestions because they want "evidence." Arch nor FTX has any mapping knowledge and has to outsource it to biass or Jip to evaluate, so it gets rather cumbersome to take orders from people who hardly do it themselves.
So, I was trying to sleep, but just for the record....
You said you were leaving because the level of work wasn’t high enough. And you didn’t want to talk without feedback.
I can’t believe someone would ever say wanting “evidence” is a bad thing? if we put a map untested into the pool and it’s broken that’s far worse than steady caution.
Was this because you were asked to back up why we should just instantly remove a map from the pool because it was “bad?”
I’m part of the team so it’s not really outsourcing, but I can’t recall needing to step into a discussion to provide some form of additional evaluation.
It sounds to me like you’re seriously preparing to make some shot at player councillor. You probably planned this whole thing out already. My personal opinions on the matter aside, any PC needs to remember two things:
- Communicate with integrity.
- Your opinions are not gospel.
FtX might not be tall enough to look over the podium, but when he speaks people typically don’t need to go back and double check it. You and I both have sat through when PC’s got rewarded for literally spending all their time in another game, so I hope this move isn’t just so you can change a ladder map or two.
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The main problem of tournaments is that it is difficult to gather those who want to, I help all Russian-speaking people to organize or briefly say "barker". But for about 2 years, there are no new active, non-toxic, non-title players. The problem is that now most players are overrated-so they are proud of their image, not a good game in the tournament. I want Morax's ideas to come true!
Even putting together an entertainment tournament for Russian-speaking streamers is a very difficult process of communication with the community, after which I do not go to the faf for a couple of weeks.
It seems to me that everything will work out if you play for avatars, and not for real money. The incentive to stand out attracts players, rather than the material one. This is just my personal experience.
Now I'm more involved in interacting with ru cartographers and encouraging them. So maybe Morax is right. That some TD's are doing something else... I'm an example of that. I want to apologize in advance. But I will try to somehow find new talents for 1300+ 1600+
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@archsimkat said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
FTX has done a lot of work to make hosting tournies/showmatches on faflive a very smooth process, so take advantage of it. I don't think this needs to be said again, but you don't have to be a player councillor to host a tournament.
You seem to have a lot of very specific restrictions that you would like to see, so you can host a tourney with exactly those restrictions. There is nothing stopping you from hosting a tournament specifically for people who don't have the energy to spam too many games like demonstreamer, but have 500+ games, but who don't want to whore BOs either like those dirty 1900+ who unfairly play at a super high level, but who also aren't literal trash tier at under 1600. You know, a tourney for the common folk.
Be proactive and be the change you want to see in this community. Instead of trying to denigrate people like FTX and Swkoll, who really do care and who have put a huge amount of their time and resources into hosting tournies and generally helping out, you can come up with workable and implementable solutions, and prove that you can carry them out. Imo if you seriously want to have a shot at getting people to vote for you as PC, you have to prove that you will do better, instead of only flinging mud at people who have contributed positively to the community and not offering/executing any solutions yourself.
Learn your history, arch: I have done more work on the community and donated more personal money into this than both of them combined. You are young here in the community so I suppose this is not known, but sure I will go ahead and run as PC and we can settle this that way by showing who actually gets support.
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@biass said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
morax said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
I left the "ladder team" recently for similar reasons in that the debates on what map is good or bad was endless, often with FTX or arch shooting down any suggestions because they want "evidence." Arch nor FTX has any mapping knowledge and has to outsource it to biass or Jip to evaluate, so it gets rather cumbersome to take orders from people who hardly do it themselves.
So, I was trying to sleep, but just for the record....
You said you were leaving because the level of work wasn’t high enough. And you didn’t want to talk without feedback.
I can’t believe someone would ever say wanting “evidence” is a bad thing? if we put a map untested into the pool and it’s broken that’s far worse than steady caution.
Was this because you were asked to back up why we should just instantly remove a map from the pool because it was “bad?”
I’m part of the team so it’s not really outsourcing, but I can’t recall needing to step into a discussion to provide some form of additional evaluation.
It sounds to me like you’re seriously preparing to make some shot at player councillor. You probably planned this whole thing out already. My personal opinions on the matter aside, any PC needs to remember two things:
- Communicate with integrity.
- Your opinions are not gospel.
FtX might not be tall enough to look over the podium, but when he speaks people typically don’t need to go back and double check it. You and I both have sat through when PC’s got rewarded for literally spending all their time in another game, so I hope this move isn’t just so you can change a ladder map or two.
The "evidence" word was used as a joke because any time I did no one replied.
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What does it take to host a tournament?
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You know what would be cool, WWPC, I feel like everyone would be happy. Tournies for all brackets.
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Designing a Tournament:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1478/how-do-i-host-a-tournamentPart D describes expectations and abilities for TDs:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/269/tournament-code-of-conductWWPC is one of those things that someone gets motivated to host once a year, then after a month it goes inactive. The TD needs to keep track of matchups where people can be massively inconsistent in showing up and also needs to continue to prod people to play it. If that active level of management doesn't happen, people forget about it and the TD stops regulating it. Then a new TD restarts it the next year in hopes that it will be different this time and the cycle continues.
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Well TBH WWPC should be automated, but might as well just implement a general tournament hosting framework as Thomas mentioned.
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@aulex said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
Well TBH WWPC should be automated, but might as well just implement a general tournament hosting framework as Thomas mentioned.
Aulex, I ran WWPC for years, and in the beginning it was awesome, but over time people started to not be responsible and play matches, and kept forfeiting. It go old and people wanted something new, otherwise I would be happy to run it again.
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@robustness said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
The main problem of tournaments is that it is difficult to gather those who want to, I help all Russian-speaking people to organize or briefly say "barker". But for about 2 years, there are no new active, non-toxic, non-title players. The problem is that now most players are overrated-so they are proud of their image, not a good game in the tournament. I want Morax's ideas to come true!
Even putting together an entertainment tournament for Russian-speaking streamers is a very difficult process of communication with the community, after which I do not go to the faf for a couple of weeks.
It seems to me that everything will work out if you play for avatars, and not for real money. The incentive to stand out attracts players, rather than the material one. This is just my personal experience.
Now I'm more involved in interacting with ru cartographers and encouraging them. So maybe Morax is right. That some TD's are doing something else... I'm an example of that. I want to apologize in advance. But I will try to somehow find new talents for 1300+ 1600+
A good starting point would be to convert some of the bilingual people like paralon, Petrie, mozy or Suzuji into TDs. I feel like the language barrier has an unnecessarily high impact on the community and there is far less overlap between ru and rest of the world. I guess it all starts with people actively trying to bridge these communities via bi-lingual tourneys for example. Putin tried this with his awassa tourney, I feel like at this point the initiative needs to come from FTX and the English speaking guys to actively including the Russians by offering default translations of all tourney descriptions (ladder league, lots, summer invitational) in Russian. I’m sure that there are russian community members willing to translate the texts, people just need to ask. Given the inconceivably high share of Russian speakers I really wonder how that hasn’t occurred to people before.
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@big-bennis-magic said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
A good starting point would be to convert some of the bilingual people like paralon, Petrie, mozy or Suzuji into TDs.
+1
@robustness said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
The main problem of tournaments is that it is difficult to gather those who want to, I help all Russian-speaking people to organize or briefly say "barker". But for about 2 years, there are no new active, non-toxic, non-title players. The problem is that now most players are overrated-so they are proud of their image, not a good game in the tournament.
There are a lot of players who get overrated and then don't play much because they want to keep their higher-than-deserved rating for ego... This negatively impacts participation in FAF tournaments as well as in regular ladder/TMM/global games. A good solution would be to increase players' rating sigma (the value after the +/-) over time (something like an additional 1 or 2 sigma per day could be good). That way, it would incentivize people to keep playing to keep their rating up, and it would allow rusty players who haven't played in a while an easier transition back to FAF.
@robustness said in A plea for the Lack of Events for "2nd Rate" "Common Folk" & The Community:
It seems to me that everything will work out if you play for avatars, and not for real money. The incentive to stand out attracts players, rather than the material one. This is just my personal experience.
Tournaments with real money rewards make greater incentive for people to be more invested/reliable, but also to try to manipulate their rating. So, perhaps real money tournaments should have stricter anti-smurf/anti-rating-manipulation standards than tournaments that just offer avatars and not money. I do think more avatar-only tournaments might be a good way to have more mid-level FAF tournaments with relatively less smurfing.
Also, if you guys want more active mid-level tournaments, perhaps you should coordinate more with the promotions team... I'm sure they'd be willing to have some news posts related to making more FAF tournaments happen (perhaps including a post related to getting more people to become TD's)...
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once again, any translator normally translates everything and informs, the fact is that there are simply no willing people... a large number of players are not interested in ladder tournaments and the like...
they are interested in 95% crater, gap, eco mash and t4because of this, we stopped supporting our information site, where we made all the announcements of tournaments and everything that was related to the faf
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@big-bennis-magic This is a good idea, I'll try to get the Summer Invitational Posts translated before they go up.
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A sigma increase does nothing for making people more interested in playing tournaments. They would simply take the path of least resistance and play what got them to their “inflating rating” in the first place. Tournaments were always for competitively inclined players and trying to brute force players that have no competitive inclination to play in them isn’t going to do much at all.
You would also actually run into a problem of increased smurfing as players intentionally don’t play in order to qualify for an easier tournament just to win whatever reward. There are ways to stop it of course, but this is you trying to solve a self-made problem that didn’t address anything in the first place. If you wanted to make a sigma increase for inactive players, it would be after X period of inactivity followed with an increase up to Y cap. Likely 1 month of inactivity with a 200 sigma cap.
There’s also hardly a need for rating manipulation/smurf/etc restrictions in high level tournaments because everyone is already a known entity and it doesn’t even result in a competitive gain. Lower rating means harder seed means harder road to prize. I’m assuming you’re talking about high level tournaments with regards to monetary prize pools because for the most part, those have always been the funded tournaments.
There is no problem with translations but that relies on community general will. If a Russian wants to help out and make translation posts feel free (this is why I write/proofread English translations of Russian tournaments), but I’m not going to pm Petric to translate every single tournament thread for me. He isn’t going to want to do it and I’m not going to force him to do it. Like most things FAF, there needs to be a mutual interest to work on a project otherwise you’re spending half your time reminding someone to do it and therefore wasting your own time.
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Gosh / Jesus faf is so small we know anyone who enters any tournament in 1500+ anyway and any new incumbent will be scanned with so much scepticism and or curiosity that smurfing cash reward tourneys to the final is a thing that exists purely the in the mind of a naysayer.
If we could stop talking everything to death before we try it we would lead so much better faf-lives.
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Smurfing rating capped tournies is something that has already happened in the past.
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Alright, let me rephrase: why do you not want to host an event similar to described above? Is it a matter of time, preference?
If it’s a lack of preference why? What can I express to others who are wondering the same as Myself?
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Express to them that they should do some introspection. Hosting a tournament couldn’t be any more spoonfed and the person responsible for managing events couldn’t be any more available.
I manage major long term FAF events which require consistency and reliability. I also manage the logistics around tournaments and keep everyone covered, negotiate with external partners that want to work with FAF, and just generally work with new TDs to make sure they are making the proper hosting decisions.
I probably spent 8 hours trying to make Fearghal’s tournament as solid as possible. I worked a few hours with Willow to figure out a decent format for a 2v2v2 tournament that wouldn’t result in a chaotic bracket.
You want a 1500 rated tournament? Host it yourself. I fail to believe a demand exists with no supply. If that is how it exists, I’m the very LAST person on FAF that should be getting petitions to host the tournaments.
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Sorry, that was an open-ended question to people in general, not you specifically.
