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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    Matchmaker Rotation/System Comments

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    • Sir-PrizeS Offline
      Sir-Prize
      last edited by

      Well yeah that's obviously what I'm saying, the code is bugged.

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      • arma473A Offline
        arma473
        last edited by

        I hate the idea of a veto for anything except the top 1-2 brackets. For lower-rated and middle-rated players, part of the point of ladder is to push your comfort zone so you can learn about different kinds of maps.

        For higher-rated players, if they prefer to have a veto, we should respect that. If adding a veto means there will be more high-rated ladder matches, then it's probably a good thing.

        Also, or in the alternative, I think it would make sense to give 1300+ players the ability to "opt-in" to the 1800+ pool. It would be bad if we threw them all in to the 1800+ pool because not everyone wants to learn build orders for 6 new maps every time the ladder pool changes, and we don't want to chase away 1500s. Some people only want to play 5-10 matches per month. But if some of them are especially active and would prefer the larger pool, allowing them to opt-in would be good.

        Another way to do it: get rid of the 1300+ pool, those players would all be forced to use the 1800+ pool. BUT they get at least 5 vetoes. By default, 5 of the vetoes are applied to the 5 "1800-only" maps. The 1300s could go into the veto menu and change it up. So if they never bother to meddle with the veto menu, they get the vanilla 1300+ pool because of vetoes. BUT they can easily move the vetoes around (or just veto nothing at all) if they take the time to open the menu.

        Sir-PrizeS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Sir-PrizeS Offline
          Sir-Prize @arma473
          last edited by Sir-Prize

          This conversation is probably irrelevant, people have been asking for a veto or a return to the Zep pool for years and apparently the dev time and interest for working on it don't exist. But I really don't understand how you figure the top of the ladder, where the pros and tryhards are, should be designed to support participation while the rest of ladder, where the casuals are, should be about forcing people to push themself and having less fun for the purpose of getting better at a niche game in a niche gaming genre. Matchmaker should be just that - a way to get a match - and if vetoes help* and are technically possible then they should be applied for everyone.

          *While I would personally like vetoes, it's not a deal maker/breaker for my ladder participation and I'm not sure it would actually help much, especially at high levels where people have mastered game mechanics and are looking for a fresh challenge through map variety. So I can understand why devs don't wanna spend a lot of time on it, would be happy to be proven wrong though.

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          • ResistanceR Offline
            Resistance
            last edited by

            the casual level is the rating itself as to me,can't really assume that ZLO is a casual or any other high rated ladder boi.
            might just be the amount of people that aren't comfortable with the ladder basics

            queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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            • Sir-PrizeS Offline
              Sir-Prize
              last edited by

              I've tried reading that a couple of times and I still can't be sure what you're trying to say. Are you... posting just to say you agree that casuals aren't high rated...?

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              • ResistanceR Offline
                Resistance
                last edited by

                Yeah,i don't think there're a casual high rated players in ladder.
                At least I haven't seen any,correct me if i am wrong.

                queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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                • Sir-PrizeS Offline
                  Sir-Prize @FtXCommando
                  last edited by

                  @FtXCommando Before @Brutus5000 implements Ladder Pool 41 please get a fix for Emerald Cliffs, it is imbalanced due to one of the Hydros being unbuildable.
                  https://i.imgur.com/w7F3oIc.png
                  https://i.imgur.com/Cd7QwcR.jpeg

                  Would be nice if there was a requirement for maps to be playtested more than 0 times before they were put straight in the pool, not just for this kind of basic bugfixing but you would get less of it.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Sir-PrizeS Offline
                    Sir-Prize
                    last edited by

                    New pool is up, no games on Emerald Cliffs yet but the version in the vault and linked the Map List in 1v1 matchmaker is broken.

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                    • MylaurM Offline
                      Mylaur
                      last edited by

                      I'm happy about the decision and logic regarding map pools and division. As a low rated player I definitely don't want huge maps during the low rated divisions, especially since we already struggle on smaller maps.

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                      • FtXCommandoF Offline
                        FtXCommando
                        last edited by

                        Adjusting the 2v2 pool by removing 5x5 maps, let me know if this is better or worse (mainly if you're a newer player).

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                        • AurikoA Offline
                          Auriko
                          last edited by

                          https://replay.faforever.com/13791358

                          The map pool system is still not working. I've played a bermuda locket game while being under 1800.

                          AskaholicA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • FtXCommandoF Offline
                            FtXCommando
                            last edited by

                            It is working, it uses mu instead of shown rating now.

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                            • AurikoA Offline
                              Auriko
                              last edited by

                              Mu ? What is that stat ? It' would be more intuitive if we could link the stat shown in your post (1800+) to the number we actually see in our profil, rather than a hidden stat we can't see. It's not very important, but i bet i won't be the last to be confused by it ^^

                              You could just rename your categories. If 1800 Mu = 1600 real rating just rename 1800+ into 1600+ ?

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                              • FtXCommandoF Offline
                                FtXCommando
                                last edited by

                                No I think the rating breakdown as it is works fine, im just going to move everything up by 300 instead to reflect player mu. This will still confuse people as mu is not shown rating, but odds are we are going to just toss shown rating as some sort of measure for the matchmaker and instead just give people their mu alongside a placement period for new players prior to them being given a rating.

                                So essentially, we're in between a systemic change but everything is working as intended.

                                FtXCommandoF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • AskaholicA Offline
                                  Askaholic @Auriko
                                  last edited by Askaholic

                                  @cocAurico Yea, there is a bug where the 2v2 queue is using your 1v1 rating when selecting the map: https://github.com/FAForever/server/pull/702. This fix will be deployed during the Feb. 13 server update.

                                  Like FTX said, it also uses your trueskill mean, so not your displayed rating which is mean - 3 * deviation. I checked your ladder rating which is mean 1882 and deviation 65. Since 1882 > 1800, this explains why you got a map from the 1800+ map pool.

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                                  • arma473A Offline
                                    arma473
                                    last edited by

                                    Maps should be done by rating, not mu, because rating is known to the players. People should always be able to know which maps they might get.

                                    AskaholicA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • FtXCommandoF Offline
                                      FtXCommando @FtXCommando
                                      last edited by

                                      @FtXCommando said in Matchmaker Rotation/System Comments:

                                      This will still confuse people as mu is not shown rating, but odds are we are going to just toss shown rating as some sort of measure for the matchmaker and instead just give people their mu alongside a placement period for new players prior to them being given a rating.

                                      So essentially, we're in between a systemic change but everything is working as intended.

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                                      • AskaholicA Offline
                                        Askaholic @arma473
                                        last edited by

                                        @arma473 In a perfect world we would have the client filter out the maps for which your own rating is too low in the map pool view, then you don’t need to know what your rating is to get that info (remember one of the goals of TMM is to de-emphasize rating), but of course this will require someone to implement it, so it will take time. Even with that though, you might not be able to get all those maps for a particular match, since the map selection also depends on the rating of your opponents.

                                        And yea, we really want the trueskill value to be an implementation detail, and have people’s skill represented by a league/division. Soon™️

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                                        • AurikoA Offline
                                          Auriko
                                          last edited by

                                          Key point is : people should have a clear idea of which map they can be playing so there are not surprised. When I click "maplist" in the FAF client, does it show all ladder maps or just the maps of my pool ? If it's the maps of my pool, i'd say : forget about displaying MU or whatever, just tell people : "check the maplist to know what maps are unlocked to you" and it's totally fine to me.

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                                          • T Offline
                                            Tagada Balance Team
                                            last edited by Tagada

                                            Map lists in the client display all maps, not just the ones you can get given your mu.

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