LotS 2021 Workshop Thread
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This is where I'm going to be putting things as I work them out. Feel free to give input if you want.
Last LotS Insights:
- Do not offer funds to people that placed below 5-8th.
- Adjust group stage so captains choose their groups.
- Begin promotion work earlier.
- Create a caster schedule.
- Keep to approximately 10-12 games a day in the worst case for a player.
- Revert back to double elimination format for group stages (see 2019 LotS) to get rid of "useless games."
- Use the "veto down" system for the last game in a series
- Have assistant TDs keep track of faction vetos and general statistics for later data crunching
- Keep games clean of nonparticipants aside from casters.
- Keep the Official Tournament broken up over 3 days (from an individual player's perspective).
Maybes:
- Have group stages take place on differing days for more coverage.
- If not possible, have something like a caster for each group stage?
- Maybe include map gen in some way.
Point System Currently:
League Series (x4)
1st: 12 points (48)
2nd: 10 points (40)
3rd: 8 points (32)
4th: 5 points (20)
5th: 4 points (16)
6th: 3 points (9)
7th: 2 points (8)
8th: 1 point (4)Invitationals (x3)
1st: 20 points (60)
2nd: 15 points (45)
3rd: 12 points (36)
4th: 10 points (30)
5-8th: 6 points (18)
9-16th: 2 points (6)Mini-LotS (x2)
1st: 10 points (20)
2nd: 8 points (16)
3rd: 6 points (12)
4th: 4 points (8)
5-8th: 2 points (4)
9-16th: 1 point (2)LotS (x3 with decay as you go through older years)
1st: 20-10-5 points
2nd: 16-8-4 points
3rd: 14-7-4 points
4th: 12-6-3 points
5-8th: 8-4-2 pointsOptions to think through:
Option A: 12 invites, 4 qualifiers
Option B: 10 invites, 4 qualifiers, 2 reserved
Option C': 8 Invites, 4 qualifiers, 4 reserved
Option D': 12 invites, 4 reserved (more space for breaking up group stage)- Reservations would be based on last LotS performance.
- If I didn't include it here then I don't consider it an option.
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Point Leaderboard Example:
Blue would be a cutoff for 10 invites.
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Reserved Post for Thinking about Tournament Date Logistics.
March:
13/3 - Spring Qualifier
20/3 - Group Stage
27/3-28/3 - Day 1 & 2 of Spring InvitationalApril:
10/4-11/4 - April League SeriesJune:
12/6-13/6 - June League SeriesJuly:
10/7 - Summer Qualifier
17/7 - Group Stage
24/7-25/7 - Day 1 & 2 of Summer InvitationalAugust:
14/8-15/8 - August League SeriesSeptember
18/9 - Fall Qualifier
25/9 - Group Stage October 2nd and 3rd.October 1:
2/10-3/10 - Day 1 & 2 of Fall Invitational
9/10-10/10 - October League Series- This is if we do no qualifiers
October 2:
2/10-3/10 - Day 1 & 2 of Fall Invitational
9/10-10/10 - October League Series
23/10 - Mini-LotS #1- This is if we do qualifiers
November 1:
13/11 - Mini-LotS #1
27/11 - Mini-LotS #2- This is if we do no qualifiers
November 2:
6/11 - Mini LotS #2
20/11 - Qualifier- This is if we do qualifiers
December 1:
11/12 - Day 1 of LotS
18/12-19/12 - Day 2 & 3 of LotS- This is with no divided group stage
December 2:
4/12-5/12 - Group A & Group B of LotS
11/12-12/12 - Group C & Group D of LotS
18/12-19/12 - Day 2 & 3 of LotS- This is with a divided group stage
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I would also really prefer if people that are interested in actually livecasting things directly associated with LotS ie everything in December that they come to me and try to cover one of the preceding official events so that:
A) I have actual information on your ability as a livecaster
B) Other people that would either be guests or co-casters are able to check out if they would gel with your personality
C) It allows you to get comfortable with operating the stream prior to the actual major eventShould be noted this is for people that can actually RUN the stream. Guests that you invite to cast alongside you are up to your discretion, all livecasters are trusted to maintain a decent streaming standard for the community.
Current List of Accepted LiveCasters:
Farmsletje
Petric
Swkoll
JaggedAppliance
FtXCommando -
Just gonna post my thoughts on all of this:
Do not offer funds to people that placed below 5-8th.
I think this makes sense in a world where players are receiving invites to LoTS. If you were doing 4 quals, it makes sense to reward people for winning the quals.
Adjust group stage so captains choose their groups.
This is good, I think having higher seeds choose their groups first worked well for Spring Invitational. It led to more balanced groups overall and better playoffs later.
Have group stages take place on differing days for more coverage.
I think this is a good idea if you have the casters for it. I think spilting the group stage over 2 days and having the groups fight at different times makes sense from a viewer perspective. It also allows certain casters to cast groups that they aren't playing in on FAFlive. I think you should try to avoid having 4 different streams going at once for each group though.
Maybe include map gen in some way.
I think map gen was pretty successful in the Spring Invitational and having a few map gen options in a map pool to let players opt in to map gen goes a long way.
Option A: 12 invites, 4 qualifiers
This is strongly my preference, there isn't really a need to do invites and reserved slots. The point system should reflect who the top of competitive faf. Those high level players who only want to play one tournament a year should easily be able to secure a top 4 slot in the qualifier.
Point System Currently:
The distribution of points between tournaments seems solid but I would consider increasing the points for 2020 LoTS if you go with no reservations. I would probably double it and give 4-8 points for 9-16th. Especially considering qualifying for 2020 LotS was more difficult than qualifying for 2021 Spring Invitational.
Tournament Date Logistics
I have Summer Invitational currently penciled in for July 10th, July 17th, and July 24-25th and Fall Invitational scribbled in for September 18th, 25th, and October 2nd and 3rd.
Overall I think this is a good direction for LotS to go. I think players sometimes miss the point that the FAF patreon (and the money that people such as myself donate) is being used to facilitate a high level competitive scene, not to just give money to the top players. If players aren't participating in the high level competitive scene, they shouldn't expect the tournaments to cater to them.
This is an important step to reviving the health of the high level tournament scene which is a useful marketing tool for FAF as well as good for broader community building.
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Could you post the updated Leader Board after every tourney that grants LoTS points?
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Yeah sure, makes sense. I'll update the 2nd post with it after the next league series.
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Just going to give a quick update after discussing with Tagada, Swkoll:
LoTS Option A is going to be elected: 12 invites through point system, remaining 4 seats through qual event
Tourney schedule/format (refer to point system and schedule in first few posts) will remain largely the same as it is already a week into July, any changes now would likely be too complicated.
A "lower-level" bracket is being determined.
I will update more as information becomes available.
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Hey everyone.
I will again kick things off with AU$500 towards the prize pool. Will send the funds mid-August if that suits.
LotS
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You're a legend, thank you for all the contributions you make towards the competitive FAF scene.
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@archsimkat said in LotS 2021 Workshop Thread:
You're a legend, thank you for all the contributions you make towards the competitive FAF scene.
Happy to do my part. Huge thanks go to those who work behind the scenes day-in-day-out to organise tournaments, maintain the forums, coding & updates, moderators, etc. Collectively we keep the game we love alive!
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How does one go about donating funds to the prize pool? Could someone contact me about that please?
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@Morax can help you with that - he'll be back on Wednesday if I recall correct
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Cool, thanks
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Hi, @Roboute01 , if you could get in touch with me outside the message board that would be the first step. I’ll use the direct message system on here to get things going.
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Folks, we are getting very close to a point where a decision needs to be made on the following:
Options to think through:
Option A: 12 invites, 4 qualifiers
Option B: 10 invites, 4 qualifiers, 2 reserved
Option C': 8 Invites, 4 qualifiers, 4 reserved
Option D': 12 invites, 4 reserved (more space for breaking up group stage)After talking with several players, it became obvious that Option A and a new, fifth Option E shall be used:
Option A
12 invites, 4 qualifiers
The 12 invites are determined via the point accumulation system by playing Ladder League, Invitationals (Swkoll's events), Mini-Lots, and previous year LotS.
LotS placement for 1st thru 16th will give TWICE that of a single invitational event, 50% decay for 2 years prior, 25% for 3 years and 0% for 4 years.
A single qualifier event will take place a couple to few weeks before the Group stage. For those who decide NOT to play throughout the year and do not have enough points from previous LotS, will not be in the event. If you do not place top 4 in the qualifier, you will not get a spot, unless enough points are awarded from other events. Anyone can play in the qualifier.
Option E
16 invites
LotS placement for 1st thru 16th will give A HUGE AMOUNT of POINTS that GUARANTEES PLACEMENT, 50% decay for 2 years prior, 25% for 3 years and 0% for 4 years.
I am awaiting the most up to date point totals to determine what is feasible for the points from previous LotS, but it will guarantee top 4 get in.
Keeping this simple because of all the chaos with the server lately, and I have already published a tourney schedule for the remainder of the year here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GA8Op8daVbbJpoYKLnusG_p1GxKYD6NVbRoAGe4Se5k/edit?usp=sharing
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Point Leader Board right now without any adjustments to the point system. (This is subject to change!!!)
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@Blodir might not be happy with this list
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Just FYI to all, Option A has been determined as the best route for the 2021 year. A good portion of people voiced against this due to the fact that a "single qualifier greatly reduces the reason to play throughout the year and it is unfair," which I do agree with, yet we ran into a major roadblock as to how to make it fair for Swkoll (one of our most active players) to qualify. He spends quite a bit of time and effort to run the seasonal invitationals so it seems quite unruly to exercise other options.
However, as this is also appealing to some players who do not wish to participate in games throughout the year, it will be addressed for next year should they not qualify or choose not to.
So please, keep and mind attention to the qualifier event which will take place in November. I will be adjusting the schedule for the annual events one, last time. This will place the second Mini-LotS somewhere beforehand and I am currently unable now to confirm my availability. It may need a TD to run it while I am away.
Thanks all for taking the time to talk to me about this recently!
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We are going with Option A so the Point System has been slightly adjusted to give more points for previous LoTS performance (2x the points of an Invitational with 50% decay for each year)
Updated Point System:
League Series (x4)
1st: 12 points (48)
2nd: 10 points (40)
3rd: 8 points (32)
4th: 5 points (20)
5th: 4 points (16)
6th: 3 points (9)
7th: 2 points (8)
8th: 1 point (4)Invitationals (x3)
1st: 20 points (60)
2nd: 15 points (45)
3rd: 12 points (36)
4th: 10 points (30)
5-8th: 6 points (18)
9-16th: 2 points (6)Mini-LotS (x2)
1st: 10 points (20)
2nd: 8 points (16)
3rd: 6 points (12)
4th: 4 points (8)
5-8th: 2 points (4)
9-16th: 1 point (2)LotS (x3 with decay as you go through older years)
1st: 40-20-10 points
2nd: 30-15-8 points
3rd: 24-12-6 points
4th: 20-10-5 points
5-8th: 12-6-3 pointsThe Standings have been updated :
