FAF Beta - Feedback

CheeseBerry

I've updated the changelog with a lot of changes. Read more here.

After reading through the changes I was a bit nervous about the exodus range nerf and what impact the frig changes will have, but after playing around with them a bit on the balance branch they seem promising.

The range changes are possibly a really nice way to balance the frigs a bit more while still keeping them distinct.

I'm not sure about the tempest mass cost increase though.

The build power nerf I understand, but considering they are already so high cost for so little health I never found them all that oppressive. That may just be the setoner experience talking though.

In general I think most if not all of the proposed changes move in the right direction, so I'm looking forward to playing with them

HollowSubmarine

@zeldafanboy Shield prevents some part of the crash damage. Para actually can survive hit+ctrlk combo with 2-4 properly positioned t3 shields.
With new changes to ahwassa it won't be capable to mercy even t3 cybran gen or para coverd by single t3 shield. And with t3+t2 shield combo smd should survive as well.
Dunno what was the reason of this nerf but in my opinion crashing air exp was fun and did not affect the balance on majority of maps.

PS: Since i do not know exact crash damage mitigation formula i might be wrong, feel free to correct me

FtXCommando

@greensubmarine said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Dunno what was the reason of this nerf but in my opinion crashing air exp was fun and did not affect the balance on majority of maps.

Couldn’t be more wrong. It breaks every single teamgame map because there is nothing that can be done to stop the non-air player from making a washer which in turn guarantees either constant (or even game-winning) damage or an air win purely due to existing.

Mach

they are talking about air crash damage though, not energy cost change, air crash damage has no effect on who can build it and it is one time only, not constant

Azraaa

@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

With that all being said, I wouldn't even mind a change for t3 arty to cost like 135k BT and 80-85k mass and game enders to be 30-50k mass more expensive in general.

why tho, i mean i agree but like that's a crazy uptick in already expensive units how are you going to fill that in. I'm asking what game differences are you looking for... ? More experimentals being thrown at each-other i mean yes that's exciting for casters and shit but like???

I agree with Blodir if you are going to nerf the shit out of late game then you have to make other things more interesting.

Tagada

The changelog has been updated with a few last changes:

T3 Artillery Nerf
Adjustments to the Nuke nerf
Reduction of strat elevation
Hive and Kennel adjustments

Sadly we didn't manage to get the Chrono, GC, and SCU changes in as all of them change logic and require more testing. However, there will be a small patch on the 18th of February that will include them.
UEF bubble shield rework has been delayed until the next patch.

Tagada

The patch will be deployed today at 8 pm GMT + 1 if all goes according to plan. The full changelog will be available on the forums at first and the pretty one will be made soon.

Ctrl-K

Hives Nerf

Mach

I should say I also disagree with loyalists not being able to deflect billy, because it is a funny interaction and because it makes sense, and I never saw it happen before to see why it would be a necessary change, after all all it does is make uef player check if there are any loyalists around before sending a billy

with this change (and air crash nerf) we are getting more and more towards everything being "sterile" and unable to do anything outside of their carefully designed bubble of effect on the game, when that is one of things that makes supcom fun - how many different things can happen that still make sense

someone else said, billy should get a buff instead of loyalists getting nerf if there is a problem, I never see anyone using bill at all anyways

CheeseBerry

A hives nerf, rejoice everybody! Even if it doesn't matter all that much for try-hard games it's still good stuff

Also the strat elevation reduction is such an interesting idea. T1 static AA now actually chips away quite noticeably at them, looking forward to see how that'll play out in practice

FtXCommando

@azraeel said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

With that all being said, I wouldn't even mind a change for t3 arty to cost like 135k BT and 80-85k mass and game enders to be 30-50k mass more expensive in general.

why tho, i mean i agree but like that's a crazy uptick in already expensive units how are you going to fill that in. I'm asking what game differences are you looking for... ? More experimentals being thrown at each-other i mean yes that's exciting for casters and shit but like???

I agree with Blodir if you are going to nerf the shit out of late game then you have to make other things more interesting.

?????? uh yeah it’s called the currently 5 minute long late t3/t4/rambo sacu stage? That’s actually fun to play with?

TheWreck

T3 engies were already mass per mass more efficient than hives. Now haves get a 33% nerf and t3 engies are getting a buff so why would anyone ever make hives with the current changes?

TheWeakie

Hives get nerfed to be as strong as kennels > WHY WOULD I EVER MAKE THEM AGAIN

wikingest

@thewheelie said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Hives get nerfed to be as strong as kennels

So, when does other factions get hives/kennels? Because now it seems like endless making UEF stronger and other factions weaker.

TheWeakie

When uef get's an above 5% pickrate in tourneys.

MazorNoob

@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

@zeldafanboy said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

I don't get why the Loyalist lost the ability to redirect Billy nukes.

It’s as though you add a 5% chance that Cybran laser kills your ACU if you cause a chain pgen explosion.

You’re paying half a million e in the missile + upgrade and risk getting a missile you can’t interact with sent back to you (which you paid for).

I'll necro-quote this. If it's unfair that Cybran armies have once-in-a-blue-moon protection from Billies, then please remove omni from the GC. It's the only experimental that can't be ambushed by a cloak + mazer ACU. Why invest >1M energy into it if there's a chance the enemy team made a GC instead of ML/Mega/Chicken/Fatboy?

TheWeakie

Honestly wouldn't mind that ye

FtXCommando

@wikingest said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

@thewheelie said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Hives get nerfed to be as strong as kennels

Because now it seems like endless making UEF stronger and other factions weaker.

Just one example rn:
Totally useless ACU upgrades with not even a little bit of niche by factions:
UEF: 3 (4 if u want to count the drones as separate)
Aeon: 1
Cybran: 0
Seraphim: 0

wikingest

@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:

Totally useless ACU upgrades with not even a little bit of niche by factions:
UEF: 3 (4 if u want to count the drones as separate)

Looking back at our "discussions", you saying so, I suppose that it is a proof that all UEF ACU upgrades are good. But your very vague statement does not matter really. The amount of ACU upgrades does not mean necessarily that one faction is better. By the way UEF has 3 more than CYB.

So at this point ladder statistics gives us 1697 games UEF, 1346 Cybran, 712 Seraphim, 569 Aeon. (Top right side)
https://kazbek.github.io/FAF-Analytics/ladder
Let's see how this will develop with time, after those balance modifications.

Does anybody know, can we see the same statistics about multiplayer? And is there a statistics somewhere about past tourneys?

FtXCommando

I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve made suggestions for all of UEF’s terrible upgrades to be viable.

And you seem to miss the point. UEF got buffed this patch because it has either interesting ways to exemplify faction identity (sparky, jamming) or just completely terrible units (destro). The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions. Crying about it is weird because it just infers you’d rather UEF stick to having useless upgrades never seen in a serious game because you have some strange need to see 1-for-1 buffs like factions are at perfect equilibrium already.

Also nice meme using game counts. All those 0 rated and sub 10 game players choosing a faction because of their deep nuanced take on the meta, right? Great data point.