4v4 TMM Map List WIP - Community Feedback Welcome
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@blackyps said in 4v4 TMM Map List WIP - Community Feedback Welcome:
You still argue about setons specifically, because you think seton's knowledge will translate so bad to other maps to easily make a difference of over 500 rating?
Yes. Specialized knowledge of any map translates badly to other maps, because generalization is actually quite hard.
If you had taken 1.5k me from half a year ago and put me on any non setons map, even if it was a 20x20 fullshare map, I wouldn't have played above a 1k level for the first couple matches and would have needed dozens of games to even approach 1.3k performance on those.
I'm almost certainly an extreme example here (even today I'm still hundreds of rank better on setons than on other maps, because I like grinding the same shit over and over again until I "get it") but I know there are quite a few people who play 90%+ setons, in the same way there are quite a lot of people who play 90%+ dual gap.
What the map pool team could do to play it super safe is to leave setons out of the first pool and only include it in the second pool. This way nobody can blame unbalanced games on the setons bo whores. But imo it is not really needed to do that.
Well, perception is important, as you can see from all the people blaming BO whores for their 1k ladder match losses. Even if I am completely wrong here, I think there is an argument to be made to keep setons out of the first ladder pool, just to avoid the impression of BO whores ruining the game.
I think I have made my point though.
To re-iterate: This is not about people getting an unfairly low or high 4v4 matchmaker rank. Internet points don't matter.
This is purely about having fun games for people in the <1.5k regime and unbalanced games of setons specifically might be very common there, while not being fun at all.
I think setons should be in the pool eventually (I do love the map afterall), just not at the beginning.
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First of all, I doubt too many <1.k will play the FS queue, 90%+ will probably choose NS one since that's what they are familiar with. Second of all, I doubt any hardcore Seton's players will even play the queue since like you mentioned if they play Seton's only, they are not very keen on playing a queue where they have only like 5% chance of getting their one and only map. In any other scenario, I don't believe it will impact the balance of the games enough to warrant a removal of the most popular team game map from the matchmaker.
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Damn, and here I thought ladder players were elitist.
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not sure if this is in response to my posts, but just to make sure:
my arguments were not: "omg, setons players are so good on setons, they'll crush anyone else w/o 100 hours of games there"
but instead: "omg, purely setons players are so bad everywhere else, that them suddenly playing at medium competency on setons will unintentionally unbalance games horribly"
So I guess I mostly tried to express the problems highly specialized knowledge can cause.
I guess we'll see if I'm right to be worried or not, but I believe it's at least worth thinking about
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@archsimkat said in 4v4 TMM Map List WIP - Community Feedback Welcome:
Damn, and here I thought ladder players were elitist.
Sentons is holy.
But on a serious note, there’s quite a bit more team games players by like a factor of 300:1 so you’ll be seeing a lot of commotion here.
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This is only illusion due to you being 2k. Everytime im playing x v x against lower rated players they are so fucked. And i dont dare to say that pool should be changed. But instead the thin edge between being able to overhelm my team or me crushing is kinda what it is about. But let me say that rating system kinda negates the possibility of me crushing everytime by making their team stronger. I only pity my teammates sometime.
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I think if there is a gap, then there should be a seton
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@robustness said in 4v4 TMM Map List WIP - Community Feedback Welcome:
I think if there is a gap, then there should be a seton
I kind of want to axe the gap idea.... i really don't feel like having something in a matchmaker pool that may require a Mavor to end the game...
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From my experience 3v3 gap wasn't that bad, so 4v4 maybe won't be too bad either. The amount of mass that is in the middle really makes it hard to pass it up and giving it up will lead to fast eco snowball for the team that managed to wrestle the control over it without overpaying too much in eco departament. So honestly those games shouldn't be nearly as bad as 6v6 gap.
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@morax I don't mind, the most popular map should stay in the global better
but it's not worth sticking a seton everywhere, this map is no better than the same gap
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@robustness He spoke the truth and they hated him for it lol
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4v4 dg is hardly different, you’ll still have a dude eco rushing for nuke or game ender he may just send his acu to mid to express some control. Or you’ll have some low effort navy investment and the navy player does straight eco. There is hardly any real way you’re breaking a team in it without some game ender.
Dude comparing it to sentons has zero clue how to read maps.
2v2 or 3v3 is the limit for a serious dg game I’d say. After that you have designated nuke rusher. Wouldn’t even be in the bottom half of 2v2 maps in pool rn.
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The pool looks pretty nice! I'm glad to see that Wonder Open is in there, it's a good map.
Have to say I'd be interested in having Setons in occasionally so I can give it a try without being in a game with 7 Setons pros.
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On the list there is Madness -6-with the comment:
"Spawns are not odd-even + terrain issues in the middle of the map."
This is one of my maps. I've just uploaded a new version to fix this.
- Spawns are odd vs even now
- Middle heightmap has been redone so there shouldn't be any terrain issues anymore. There is a lot more building space now.
- In addition, some textures and decals have been placed on the main mountains, to give a visual clue to where the edge of the mountain is.
On the Discord channel, I also submitted another map: Madness -2-.
Changes for that map are:
- Lighting and textures have been redone to make the map darker
- A pool has been placed on the main island as a place for commanders to hide with low HP
- Some mex spots on the main island have been placed closer to sea, to promote naval play of main island players
- A couple of decals have been placed
Please send me a PM on these forums if you have comments.
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